Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash

Shadow Attorney-General

Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations

Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate

TRANSCRIPT

Youth Jam Drive Perth with Isaac Mulcrone

Topics: Illegal boat arrivals

21 February 2024

E&OE.

Isaac Mulcrone

Yesterday we spoke to Suha Ali who spoke to us a bit about the government’s policy when it comes to illegal boat arrivals that was partly constructed by Scott Morrison when he was the immigration minister, from my understanding, and she’s labeled it as inhumane. Now, the reason this has been brought up is because on Friday, we saw a group of 20 individuals from Bangladesh and from Pakistan arrive in the northern part of Western Australia on the border one hundred kilometres north of Broome in a town called Beagle Bay. They’ve now been flown to Narau. But Peter Dutton has said that this really has been a failure of Anthony Albanese’s government when it comes to protecting our borders, and in a way I see his point. But I also see Suha’s point that this policy in part is partly inhumane. Joining us now though is Senator Michaelia Cash she is a WA Liberal Senator. Senator, thank you so much for your time today.

Senator Cash

Again, it is always fabulous to be with you and hello to all of your listeners.

Isaac Mulcrone

It’s so good to have you and I want to start off because as you’ve heard, Peter Dutton has labeled this a failure of the government’s control of our borders. I assume you agree with that point?

Senator Cash

Well I do. I am from the side of politics, as is Peter Dutton, that understands that, you know, the fundamental responsibility of the federal government is the security of our nation Australia, and the security of its people, Australians. And so you have to have tough border protection policies. Now, that does not mean that as the government – when we were in government – you also didn’t have a very, very strong and in fact, one of the world leading refugee programs. So, we have an incredibly strong refugee program, I think in 2022-23, the intake was around 17,875. So, we open our arms every single year to those who need our assistance. What we are talking about though, is those who seek to come here illegally. In other words, they haven’t come through the system that we have in place that ensures fairness, for those sitting for sometimes decades in camps in other countries.

Isaac Mulcrone

And I see that perspective. And I think that part of what you’re saying I agree with. Yesterday, we were chatting to Suha Ali who labeled this as an inhumane policy, one that she liked to see scrapped and our listeners have agreed with her. Do you think that the approach that’s been taken with this illegal boats policy or Operation Sovereign Borders, do you think that has overshadowed the fantastic work that was done when it comes to the refugee policies?

Senator Cash

It is sometimes, I think that people forget or sometimes people actually don’t know that we actually do have a humanitarian policy system that is literally the envy of the world. And I think people think that we don’t take in anybody on the yearly basis and yet as I’ve said – in 2022-23, 17,875 visas were given to people. Now we work with the United Nations. We work as a country through the United Nations to actually ensure that those visas are going to people in need. Now Isaac, I have sat around with communities that have been the recipient of these visas and when I’ve said to them, how long were you in refugee camps? Can I tell you I almost fell off my seat when some of them – they were from the Congo – told me over two decades?

Isaac Mulcrone

Wow. Yeah.

Senator Cash

You’ve got to talk about a policy that is fair. I don’t think it’s fair to have people come in here by boat, who are really economic refugees in so many circumstances. I don’t think it’s fair to have a policy that under the last Labor government saw over 1200 people die at sea. I can’t agree that is humane. If people want to argue that stopping deaths at sea is inhumane, well, that’s for them to argue. I can never agree with them. I agree with a policy that is fair, that is reasonable, that we work through the United Nations to ensure we’re doing it properly on a global scale. But at the same time, if you say Operation Sovereign Borders is unfair, all you are saying to the people smugglers is – you’ve got a whole product, that product is a human being, that, as a people smuggler you get to exploit. They get to give us thousands of dollars, you get to put them in our leaky boat down to Australia. And guess what? They may die at sea. Isaac, I cannot agree with that.

Isaac Mulcrone

Yeah no, I do actually see that point and I think that’s a really important point to hammer down. And let me ask you because many of our listeners, they would have been quite young including myself when this policy was constructed. Can you take us back to when it was being constructed by the then Coalition Government and Scott Morrison was leading there? Can you tell us behind the curtains as to what inspired the way that it was constructed?

Senator Cash

It’s a really good question. So at the time, what we had inherited back in 2013 was literally a case of human tragedy. Why? Because Labor had decided to put up the white flag to the people smugglers, the people smugglers are not nice people Isaac. They see a human being that they can actually exploit in the market, they will do that. If you do not have a strong policy, they exploit humans, it’s as simple as that. So what we saw under the former government, because of their failure to maintain strong borders was 50,000 people arrived here illegally by boats. Now that ends up displacing those who are sitting for decades in camps doing the right thing, waiting for a country like Australia to say – we welcome you with open arms. We saw 1200 people Isaac, die at sea, in excess of 820 boats. So from our perspective, we did not want to return to the human tragedy. And as such we said, how do you put a) a stop to the human tragedy and b) send a very clear message to people smugglers who trade in misery, nothing more and nothing less? We are serious as a government. We will welcome refugees from camps through the United Nations humanitarian program with open arms, but we will do it on our terms and we will not risk people’s lives at sea. That’s how Operation Sovereign Borders was ultimately put into place. And on any analysis, it was successful. Because we stopped – and it’s not we stopped the boats – we stopped the illegal boat arrivals, we stopped the deaths at sea, but more than that, we stopped the children being put into detention. So again, I can’t agree with people who say, giving the people smugglers who market or who just live on human misery, a product to sell that could potentially kill that person when they take that risky journey. I can never argue that that is a fair policy. What is a fair policy is no human tragedy, but also having a program as we do that works with the UNHCR and does offer each year people the opportunity to come here to become Australians, to be embraced by Australia, but done through a proper humanitarian program.

Isaac Mulcrone

Yep and if you were in government today, and if you were, God forbid, working with Anthony Albanese, what would you do next? Because you’ve seen this boat arrive in WA’s north, we’ve seen these people come to Australia, they successfully managed to navigate their way to our shores without being stopped by Australian forces. What should Mr. Albanese do now?

Senator Cash

Well, the first thing that he should do is bring back Temporary Protection Visas. Because remember, they say they’re committed to Operation Sovereign Borders, but they’re not. Because the first thing they did when they got into government was actually remove that key pillar. If you did come here illegally by boat, the most we’d ever give you was a Temporary Protection Visa which meant in the event that you could be returned to your homeland or third country, you would be. That was a key message to the people smugglers. You cannot market Australia as a permanent option. When Anthony Albanese got rid of Temporary Protection Visa’s all he said to the people smugglers was I’m giving you a product to now market. And in their time in government, you’ve now seen 311 illegal arrivals. In fact, we believe it’s about 13 illegal maritime ventures since they we’re elected. But what they also did is in their most recent budget, they actually ripped $600 million from border security. And even the Australian Border Force Commissioner has said that leaves his front-line forces stretched. So, what I would say to Anthony Albanese is if you want to serious about sending a message to these people smugglers who deal in human tragedy, please bring back Temporary Protection Visas, but also re-invest back into border security the $600 million that you ripped out.

Isaac Mulcrone

Senator Michaelia Cash we have run out of time, unfortunately, but it’s a really interesting conversation to have. Thank you so much for your time today.

Senator Cash

Great to be with you Isaac. I hope we can do it again.