Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
TRANSCRIPT
Vision FM, Neil Johnson
17 June 2024
Topics: Albanese government’s Religious Discrimination Bill
E&OE
Neil Johnson
Well, let’s throw a spotlight on Australia’s freedoms that are significantly under threat with the proposed new anti-discrimination legislation. Concerns are raw and real around legislation that can take away the essence of what it is to be Christian in our Christian schools, in our churches and parachurch organisations and charities. The Albanese government is proposing major changes to religious life in Australia with the religious discrimination bill based on the Australian Law Reform Commission’s ALRC report into religious educational institutions and anti-discrimination laws, as well as some amendments to the Sex Discrimination Act. Well alarm bells from faith leaders appear to have fallen on deaf ears. The church leaders’ concerns are that fundamental human rights that are protected under international law are about to be taken away. But what’s the Federal Opposition doing to oppose what is happening at both federal and state levels? Well Senator Michaelia Cash is Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and Shadow Attorney-General. She’s also Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, and she’s joining us, Senator Cash, welcome along to 2020.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you Neil and hello to your listeners.
Neil Johnson
Senator Cash, let me start with those detailed submissions from church leaders that were sent to the Australian Law Reform Commission, that have been sent to the Prime Minister. They appear to have fallen on deaf ears, some saying we have been completely ignored. What’s your response?
Senator Cash
Well, my response to that is: What you’ve just said Neil is unfortunately correct. I have been as you know, traveling around Australia, talking to people of faith across the board, whether it’s Christians, Jewish people, Islamic people, Buddhists, Hindus, I have personally met with them. And I have, ironically as I am the opposition Shadow Attorney-General, I have been the one taking them through the government’s legislation. Why? Because Mr. Dreyfus and Mr. Albanese refuse to release their legislation publicly. But Neil when I sit down with faith groups across the board, there is one overwhelming message that they give me and it is this – faith groups go backwards by a long way if the legislation proposed by Mr Dreyfus, and Mr. Albanese goes through, and as far as I’m concerned, that is unacceptable.
Neil Johnson
Now, this really comes down to, interesting too, because just recognize that you also are the shadow minister for employment and workplace relations, comes down to whether or not schools can fire a teacher or other staff if they act against the school’s religious ethos. That’s something that the schools want to maintain. Is that something the opposition would champion?
Senator Cash
So, what the legislation does is it does pick up the Australian Law Reform Commission’s recommendation. Okay, so basically, what Mr. Dreyfus, and Mr Albanese propose to do with their legislation is remove all express protections that allows the school to manage teacher conduct which they can currently do in good faith. And that is the key here, Neal in good faith, if it is necessary to uphold the religious ethos of the school. Now why do we say that that is important? Because religious schools and again, regardless of faith, religious schools provide choice. They provide choice to parents in Australia as to how they would like their children educated. So why do these schools exist? Well, they exist (a) because there is a place for them in Australia, and the increasing enrolments in faith-based schools would show that parents are exercising that choice. But they exist for parents who wish to have their children educated in an environment that upholds and exemplifies a religious ethos. Now, in order to be able to do that, as the law currently says, they are able to choose to employ staff (a) who adhere to the same religion. So, a Catholic school could preference, a Catholic teacher, an Anglican, an Anglican teacher, a Jewish school, a Jewish teacher, but at the same time, require those staff to uphold and to model the religious faith of the school and to freely teach and promote the values of that faith. That’s what this is all about, Neil, parents exercising their ability to choose how they want their children educated.
Neil Johnson
And what’s being proposed, reportedly, doesn’t allow parents to have freedom to understand that schools have that right to be able to hire and fire according to their religious ethos, and what appears to be the case is that the Albanese government seems determined to push these reforms through, but they are wanting bipartisan support. And so the pressure comes back on to you. Would you support the Albanese government with this bill in the way that we understand that it stands at the moment?
Senator Cash
Absolutely not. And I have given very, very clear feedback to Mr. Dreyfus as the Attorney General, as the person responsible for drafting the current legislation, which as I said, the faith groups across Australia have made it clear to me they have also made it clear Neil, in a letter dated the ninth of May 2024, to the Prime Minister and to the Attorney General, and neither the Prime Minister nor the Attorney General have responded to this letter. I will read from it. So, it’s not me saying this Neil. This is what the Australian Catholic Bishops Conference has written to the Prime Minister. If the amendments to the SDA and the proposed RDB are enacted, as currently drafted, they would go a long way backwards. So, I have said on behalf of the opposition, working with the faith communities, that is an acceptable, we have a very clear position as the opposition under Peter Dutton. Any legislation that is brought forward must ensure that faith communities across Australia take a step forward, not a step backwards. And at the moment, the clear feedback from religious communities is they are let down. They feel incredibly let down now by the Prime Minister of this country and the Attorney General of this country, because they have put in black and white legislation, which on any analysis from the faith communities, and again, I quote from the letter so it’s not me saying it. In essence, they would go a long way backwards. That is unacceptable, Neil.
Neil Johnson
Senator, the Christian leaders, they don’t want simple exemptions. They actually want legislated that human rights will be upheld by their government. People make reference to article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It’s about freedom of thought, conscience and religion. That’s what the church leaders want. Is the opposition – is your position here to support those church leaders in upholding that article 18?
Senator Cash
Well, what we’ve always sought to do is to protect freedom of religion, and as you know, we brought forward a package under the former government to protect freedom of religion in line with as you’ve said, article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The issue that we have at the moment is that both the Attorney-General of this country Mr. Dreyfus, and the Prime Minister, Mr. Albanese, the problem with what they are putting forward is that it clearly takes faith communities backwards and not forwards. So, I have said to faith communities in my meetings with them: we believe in you. We have faith in you. And we want you to have a future under any government and unfortunately under Mr. Dreyfus, and Mr. Albanese, which collectively means under a Labor Government, faith-based schools in particular, do not have a future. And I think that is absolutely disgraceful that a Labor Government would seek to compromise parental choice in this country and not respect the right of a parent to choose how their child is educated. I mean, Neil, we are so lucky. We live in a country whereby you don’t have to send your child to a faith-based school. If you choose to you can. And as a government, you should always respect that right? But if you don’t want to do that, you’re actually able to send them to a state-based system. We should respect parental choice in this country and uphold it, not undermine it, as the Labor Prime Minister is wanting to do.
Neil Johnson
Under the way you describe it, you’re describing what is already a significant freedom for people to send their children or not send to a religious school.
Senator Cash
That’s it. And I don’t understand people who say, oh but we don’t want to respect that freedom of choice. It’s all about choice. We respect your choice not to send your child to a faith-based school. But then let’s also respect the choice of parents who want to send their child to a faith-based school and as I said, you know, as I travel around the country, and I talk in particular, to principals of Christian schools, they are seeing an increase in enrolments and not necessarily from Christian parents. Other faiths are seeking to send their children to a Christian school. Why? Because they want them to be educated in an environment shaped by strong values. They recognize the value that a faith-based school has because they are a community of faith, grounded in religious and moral principles and ultimately grounded in faith. Why would a Labor Government seek to undermine that? And the only answer I can come up with is they don’t believe in faith-based schools. And quite frankly, that’s an indictment on Mr. Albanese and Mr. Dreyfus that they would, in the first instance even draft legislation that takes away the right for faith-based schools to operate in accordance with their values, their ethos and their beliefs, but that’s what you’re seeing under Anthony Albanese and Labor.
Neil Johnson
Some commentators are saying we are actually better off with the current situation than tinkering with legislation, giving activists ammunition to attack Christian schools and church run organizations. No legislation better than an Albanese bill on religious freedom. Is this where the opposition is moving?
Senator Cash
Well, certainly that is the feedback that I have received from faith groups, again, across Australia. And unlike the Attorney General, he likes to talk big on consultation, unfortunately, I’m the one who’s been out there talking to faith groups. And the overwhelming feedback is that there has been a very closed consultation, people not about to talk about what they have been consulted on, but the majority of people have not been consulted with. So, when I sit down with them, and I take them through the government’s legislation because I have been provided as you know, Neil, with a copy, but ironically, I’m not allowed to share it with anybody I can just talk to you about it. So, I have a very open discussion. Here it is in black and white. This is what Mr. Albanese as the Labor Prime minister of this country proposes to do. And the overwhelming feedback is we go backwards under this legislation. The status quo, therefore, remains and is our friend because at least they have the protections under the status quo. They can conduct themselves as an educational institution in accordance with their values also their ethos, their values, and their beliefs. Under Mr. Albanese, you cannot do that. You go backwards. It is a direct attack on faith. So certainly, from my perspective, we will not be supporting this legislation if it is brought forward because the overwhelming consensus is Mr. Albanese and Mr. Dreyfus have failed both groups across Australia. In fact, worse than that, they haven’t failed them, they have let them down.
Neil Johnson
Is there a situation developing though, where if the Federal Government does not legislate along these lines for religious freedom, that the states are actually jumping in and doing their own thing as is happening in the state of Queensland and these sorts of freedoms are being taken away while the Federal Government and Opposition cannot agree on what ways you can defend freedoms?
Senator Cash
I’m just going to take you to task on the Federal Government and Opposition cannot agree. The Federal Opposition, when in Government, put forward a religious discrimination bill that was overwhelmingly endorsed by faith leaders across this country. Okay, so I will stand on my record as the former Attorney-General in terms of my consultation with faith groups across the country, my consultation with Equality Australia and putting forward a package that had support. That is not the package that we have in front of us today. And whilst Mr. Dreyfus and Mr. Albanese have a package that I would say almost deliberately undermines faith in this country because it’s there in black and white. That is what they are doing. It’s not that we can’t come to an agreement. I want to come to an agreement, but I cannot agree to a package that the faith groups themselves say and again, I quote, so it’s not me saying it: “takes them a long way backwards”. I have met with the Attorney-General. I’ve done that in good faith. And I have given him the very, very clear feedback on behalf of the Opposition and on behalf of faith communities, I have made it clear to them. On the ninth of May of this year, you received letters from faith communities in this country. They clearly set out the concerns they have with the Labor government’s draft legislation. They didn’t just set out concerns though, Neil, they put forward solutions. To date we have heard crickets – silence from the Attorney General of this country. And we are now heading towards five weeks since they received that feedback and crickets from the Prime Minister. My very clear message to Mr. Dreyfus was: take on board the feedback from the faith groups – we agree with it – redraft the legislation and then release it so that people across Australia can see the legislation and know what is being proposed. But to date again, that feedback is falling on deaf ears and that is really disappointing. Because I have been consulting, I’ve provided the feedback as Mr. Dreyfus requested from me. That feedback is, as I said, on behalf of faith-based communities. They have also, in letters to the Prime Minister and the Attorney-General dated the ninth of May, provided not just feedback but potential solutions. And it has fallen on deaf ears. Shame on Mr. Albanese and shame on Mr. Dreyfus, they’re not serious, Neil. They’re not serious because if they were they’d redraft their legislation and they’d release it. So, really what faith-based people across the country need to be asking themselves: What if they got to hide? What’s the Labor government got to hide that they won’t release their legislation? Well, guess what? I know what they’ve got to hide because I’ve got it. And they’re taking away the rights of parents to choose how their children are educated in this country.
Neil Johnson
Senator Cash thank you so much for taking some time to share those positions with listeners and some will be a little more enlightened as to what’s happening with the debate around religious freedom in Australia.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you, Neil. Really enjoyed it. Thank you very much.
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