TRANSCRIPT
Sky News with Andrew Clennell
24 July 2023
E&OE.
Andrew Clennell
As I mentioned a moment ago, the Workplace Relations Minister Tony Burke has today outline the next tranche of workplace reforms, including a new pathway for casual workers to obtain permanent employee status. Part of this involves overturning a decision from the High Court in 2021 where ruled a definition of what qualifies as casual work. Its decision meant casuals could not be considered permanent workers, even if they match the hours and frequency of a full time employee. And that’s part of what the government wants to change. For more on this let’s bring in the Shadow Workplace Relations Minister and Shadow Attorney-General Michaelia Cash who joins me live from Perth. Michaelia Cash thanks for joining us. I’ll get to the IR reforms in a second but first of all I want to your reaction to this appointment of Chris Barrett as chair of the Productivity Commission. He has worked in a number of jobs – he’s been Australia’s ambassador to the OECD but he also worked with Jim Chalmers in Wayne Swan’s office, what do you make of it?
Senator Cash
Well, the now government made a huge issue of appointments that the former Coalition government had made, and they had said to the Australian people that are when they were elected to office, they would usher in a new era of transparency. In the majority of their appointments, and in particular when it comes to appointments in my portfolio. I can tell you now, Andrew, I’m failing to see a new era of transparency. It’s either someone who is a member of a union, a secretary of a union or alternatively as you’ve said a person who has worked for a previous Labor member. So all I’d say is this is a government that is very, very good at criticizing the former government. But when it comes to the transparency and the integrity, they seem to be falling a little short of the mark.
Andrew Clennell
So you all appoint your mates?
Senator Cash
Absolutely not. What I’m saying is this. The government made a huge deal of appointments made by the former Coalition government, which I would maintain were made on the basis of qualification and merit. But the government is failing to heed its own words.
Andrew Clennell
Alright, well Tony Burke on Sunday Agenda, he couldn’t have been clearer could he? He said that he wanted to overturn the High Court decision on casuals in 2021. What do you make of that?
Senator Cash
Oh look, absolutely gobsmacking. And in particular Tony Burke likes to talk in slogans, he likes to talk through the media but he fails to talk to the people that matter and that is the employers – employees need employers. If you don’t have employers, you’re not much use to an employee. What is the loophole that Tony Burke says he is trying to close? Because you see Andrew, if it’s in relation to certainty and fairness, it was a former Coalition government and in fact I was the relevant Minister, that for the first time ever legislated a definition of what a casual employee actually is – that is now in the Fair Work Act. So we got rid of all of the confusion that employers have been subjected to for years and years and years. And if you’re talking about fairness, again it was the former coalition government and I was the minister that legislated for the first time ever a statutory pathway for casual employees after 12 months to convert to permanency. So again, the only thing that I can see that Tony Burke is trying to do is a) fulfill Sally McManus’s wish which she articulated today. Ideally, we wouldn’t like to see any casuals they only want to see permanent employees. But b) to re-introduce the uncertainty that existed before the Coalition government legislated, which means that yet again you get into this situation Andrew where employers without knowing could actually misclassify an employee and then it opens the employers up to what is referred to as the double dipping which again the Coalition government got rid of.
Andrew Clennell
And he wants to make it six months doesn’t he? Six months you can become permanent? All right well, he also confirmed he’s been consulting business about big businesses paying a union delegates on site to talk about wage theft. What do you make of that?
Senator Cash
Oh look, well it’s really interesting because again, this is Tony Burke making announcements through the media. I have spoken to employer group after employer group this morning. Nobody seems to know exactly what Tony Burke wants to do. They can’t talk to the media because as you know, they’ve been made to sign I would call them a ‘gag order.’ They’re not allowed to talk about any of the industrial relations reforms. So they get to respond to announcements that are made by Tony Burke in the media. So what we’ve all gathered so far is what Tony Burke wants to do is to reintroduce into the employment landscape the uncertainty, and it was shocking uncertainty in relation to the definition of casual that the Coalition government for the first time legislated to get rid of. So again, if Tony Burke is talking about closing a loophole, perhaps he’d like to articulate what that loophole is because there is a definition of casual now in the Fair Work Act legislated by the former Coalition government with me as the Minister. And there’s already a statutory pathway to permanency for casual employees. Well, so what is Tony Burke actually trying to do? Well, again, and I think you said it on Sunday Agenda – Tony Burke, you could be accused of implementing the union’s agenda. This is something that the unions have long wanted and Tony Burke yet again, is merely implementing, or will implement what the unions want. I mean, how absolutely ridiculous. We are all opposed to wage theft. In fact, I go back to the former Coalition government, it sought to legislate against wage theft. And guess what Andrew? Yeah, the Labor Party were the ones who opposed it at the time.
Andrew Clennell
Wasn’t it an Omnibus bill? There we’re a few different provisions in there, so they knocked it back? That’s fair isn’t it?
Senator Cash
Yeah, their were a few different provisions. Well no absolutely not, one of the provisions was wage theft. Another one of the provisions which I managed to get to was to legislate the certainty in relation to casuals, was to provide for the first time ever, for the first time ever, a pathway to permanent employment for casual employees. But more than that, to ensure that if you had unfortunately not properly represented the employment relationship because of the confusion but you had paid the 25% loading as an employer, you did not then have to also pay up the entitlements as an employer. All of this has been thrown in the air by Mr Burke.
Andrew Clennell
Alright, just on Same Job, Same Pay – Tony Burke yesterday said it wouldn’t be the case that someone who’s been employed for six months would have the same rights as someone who’s been in the job for 10 years and is a gun at their job. Do you accept that?
Senator Cash
No, I don’t. Because again, Tony Burke making announcements by slogans, press releases through the media. As the employer groups are saying, show us the detail. And the one thing I have learned about this government is with Labor, it is always in the detail. So Tony Burke can say what he likes but until the employer groups, until the Coalition, until Australians see the details in this legislation, it is quite literally a wait and see moment. And the fact that he has gagged employers from speaking out about the consultation or should I say the ‘sham consultation’ that is incurring, just shows this government is all about secrecy. Until we see the detail, nobody knows what this government is going to do other than as you said, implement yet another part of the union’s agenda.
Andrew Clennell
All right, let me ask you briefly about the Voice before you go. Noel Pearson said yesterday on this program, people have nothing to fear from a voice, that governments can disregard their advice if need be. What do you make of that?
Senator Cash
Well, that’s absolutely not true. A) the Australian people don’t know what they have to fear because the government refuses to give them any detail. But what we do know is this – it’s unknown (we don’t know anything), it’s risky and on top of that, it’s permanent. Why won’t the government come clean with the detail? The government itself doesn’t know what the detail is. So what I really say to Australians – if you don’t know, vote no. Andrew, we all want to see better outcomes for Indigenous people. But providing a group of Australians with a right to make representations that no other Australian has is not the way to go about it. But what is worse is Anthony Albanese has been hoisted on his own petard because it was Anthony Albanese who actually said it would be a brave government, not to listen to the Voice.
Andrew Clennell
All right.
Senator Cash
So if you don’t know I vote no.
Andrew Clennell
Okay. Now just finally, I believe there’s a poll in the West Australian today showing the state government there which has been so far in the ascendancy is actually falling behind. Do you buy that poll?
Senator Cash
Well again, you take away the McGowan factor because a lot of Western Australia and the Labor Party’s success was based on the personal liking of Mark McGowan himself. You take away the McGowan factor and what Western Australians are now confronted with is a state that is in a complete disarray. We’ve got a health system Andrew, that is at crisis point. We have the worst housing crisis of all the states in Australia. You have an issue with law and order. So now you’ve taken away that blinkered view of McGowan, Western Australians are actually waking up to the fact that our state is not in good shape. But put the additional layer of the Indigenous cultural heritage laws, which basically says to property owners 1100 square meters or more – guess what, you no longer control your own property. And what you have is a recipe for disaster. And the Western Australian Liberal Party, we’re getting our house in order, we learned a lesson at the last election but also we are highlighting the policy deficiencies of the Labor government.
Andrew Clennell
Michaelia Cash, thanks so much for your time this afternoon.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you.
Recent Comments