Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
TRANSCRIPT
Sky News Sunday Agenda
Topics: immigrants detention, aged care report, Fair Work Commission, religious discrimination
17 March 2024
E&OE.
Andrew Clennell
Joining me live now is the Shadow Attorney-General Michaelia Cash. Michaelia Cash, thanks for your time this morning. Let me start with this immigration detainee issue the government is grappling with. You’re a former Attorney-General. Should the government accept these decisions the High Court is making or are there more legislative options they can explore?
Senator Cash
This is a government that now is a total train wreck when it comes to the issue of immigration and the release of these detainees. A competent government would continually be working with officials and with their legal drafters to put in place legislative responses. And all you hear now, and this is directly from the Prime Minister, is, “This is a decision of the High Court. Hands up, there is nothing more than we can do.” It is totally shambolic, Andrew, and I have to say what we saw on Friday with the admission that they have literally lost control of this portfolio. I mean, it really does say these two ministers should not be holding these portfolios and Mr. Albanese as the Prime Minister of this country. I mean seriously, he has given up when it comes to the security of this nation.
Andrew Clennell
Okay. So what would you do, at the moment, in their shoes, legislatively?
Senator Cash
Well, in the first instance, we would never have made the admission in the actual NZYQ case that the government made, which was that there was no further reasonable prospects of removing this person. That was the fatal error in this case, and it is an error that the Attorney-General refuses to take any responsibility for. We would never have made that admission. We know that once the government, last year, you and I have discussed this, Justice Gleeson herself of the High Court was almost pleading with the government saying, “You’ve made the admission, you are going to lose the case. You now need to do something”, and the government did nothing. It is a direct result of that admission that the government now finds itself in this case. We have always said that we would work with the government to put in place the appropriate legislative response. You saw that we actually assisted the government last year with the drafting of the legislation. And Andrew, I was at those legal briefings. One of the questions that we asked the government at the time was this, “Is what you are doing legally sound?”. And do you know what the response was? It was yes. And we now know that that was not true. So again, a government that is serious, that has its hand firmly on the wheel never gives up, and this government gave up a long time ago.
Andrew Clennell
Alright. Well, the Opposition has maintained throughout the when the NZYQ decision came down, only one detainee had to be released at this time. The opposition said not the more than 100 that have been released. But you haven’t seen the government’s legal advice around it as I understand. Now in December last year, the Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus wrote to you, offering to allow you, Peter Dutton and Dan Tehan to see two Australian Government solicitor advices, it’s on the screen now, and why detainees had to be released. And you wrote back to say, in December last year, “We agree to the terms on which you propose to share two AGS legal advices. My office will make contact to make the necessary logistical arrangements.” Why hasn’t this happened? Why haven’t you sought a time for this meeting?
Senator Cash
So, I have to say that’s pretty desperate from the Government and from the Attorney-General to now be briefing this out. In the first instance, the legal briefing that we were offered took place after they had released the majority of the detainees, the hardcore criminals, the rapists and murderers, etc., the child sex offenders and the contract killer. Secondly, we wanted to see Solicitor General advice. You would assume that a government that is releasing hardcore criminals out onto the street has Solicitor General’s advice. They offered us a briefing on AGS advice which they had specifically drafted for the purposes of the meeting.
Andrew Clennell
Why didn’t you take it up?
Senator Cash
We said that we would. I wrote back and said, yes, we would. And then do you know what happened? The Attorney-General made it almost impossible for Mr Tehan and I to undertake the briefing. They required Mr Tehan to undertake a seven hour round trip to sit in a room, and guess what? Neither of us could even speak about the advice once we’d seen it. This was not a briefing that was going to be done in good faith.
Andrew Clennell
There was a seven hour round trip, sorry, why was it a seven hour round trip?
Senator Cash
Because he was in his electorate office, and he was told to see the legal advice, he had to drive into Victoria. And we said, “Hey well, hold on, just provide it to him by way of a document.”
Andrew Clennell
But wouldn’t, you know, it’s such an important issue clearly for the country and certainly for the Opposition. Why wouldn’t Dan Tehan do that? If that was the only way to see the advice. And why couldn’t you do that, at the very least?
Senator Cash
Hold on, as I said, we accepted the briefing. The logistics that were put in place were put in place by the Government. We had set out, “Send it to Dan, he’ll sit in a room quietly by himself. We’ll read it.” Andrew, we were unable to then do anything with the advice. But the point that I would make is this- as I said, we accepted the briefing in good faith. They played games, we were unable to have the briefing. But Andrew, this is a government that releases Solicitor General advice to the public when it is in their interests. One can only assume that they have not publicly released this AGS advice because it is not in their best interest.
Andrew Clennell
Okay, fair enough, but would you accept an offer to have that briefing now? I mean, you’re all in Canberra next week.
Senator Cash
We have always said that we would actually have the briefing. We had said that Andrew. It is disingenuous of the Government to now say that we didn’t when I wrote back to the Attorney-General and accepted the briefing, and they decided to play games.
Andrew Clennell
And if that advice says they had to release 149, what’s going to be your response to that?
Senator Cash
Well, again, Andrew, they released 149, or the the majority of them, without the legal reasons or decision from the High Court. But again, I’m not going to play those games. This is a government that is a train wreck when it comes to this issue. This is a government that themselves admitted to the High Court in June of last year that there was no reasonable prospect of removing NZYQ, which then set the High Court upon a path. This is a government which has given up when it comes to putting in place legislative responses to actually ensure it’s doing its job. So as I said, they must be pretty desperate, if this is what they’re now briefing out to journalists, given in particular on Friday they put their hands up and said, “We’ve actually lost control of what we’re doing.” I actually expect more from the Commonwealth Government, Andrew.
Andrew Clennell
On aged care, you’ve heard the minister there, she wants to work with the Opposition to make the aged care system more sustainable. Will the Opposition do this?
Senator Cash
Yeah, look Andrew, it’s over now 300 days ago that AnneRuston, as the relevant Shadow Minister on behalf of the Coalition, said to the Government, we will work cooperatively with you, just like Peter Dutton said in relation to the NDIS. Any changes to the NDIS needed to be brought forward in a bipartisan manner. We’ve asked for information over that period of time. We’ve had none. We haven’t been brought into the conversation by the Government and, disappointingly,neither have the older Australians who themselves are actually affected by this report. So in answer to your question, would we? We already have. We did that over 300 days ago. And Anne Ruston has again made very, very clear we will continue to work with the Government, should they choose to actually take up that offer, but also to support any recommendations that actually make the system more sustainable. I think what’s so disappointing though about this report, is that there were two key things that were missing, in particular for older Australians who rely on the system. The first is how do you ensure the sustainability of the sector by way of funding? But also, I think anybody could tell you, the sector themselves tell you, it is the workforce shortage in particular that is leading to the crisis within the sector. That wasn’t even mentioned in the report, so I think there were two glaring omissions from the report, but more than that, Anne Ruston 300 days ago said to the Government, “We will work with you.” The Government didn’t take up that offer.
Andrew Clennell
Well, since you mentioned Anne Ruston. She got relegated to second on the Senate ticket yesterday in a preselection, with Alex Antic winning out there. Does the Liberal Party have a problem when it comes to preselecting women for top spots?Someone like Anne Ruston is obviously a more senior figure than Alex Antic.
Senator Cash
Well, the good news is that the three sitting senators in AnneRuston, Alex Antic and David Fawcett, have all been re-preselected. I think it was in both the 2019 and 2022 electionsthat we actually won three Senate positions in South Australia. So I certainly look forward to having Anne, David and Alex back in the parliament and Anne continuing her work.
Andrew Clennell
Alright, well let me ask you about aged care again. Does the Opposition support a greater co-contribution when it comes to the provision of homecare or does it support indexing the basic daily accommodation fee in nursing homes as the report proposes?
Senator Cash
Well again, we’re currently working through the report. It’s only something that we got last Sunday. Anne has been very clear, we now have more questions that need to be answered, rather than having answered.
Andrew Clennell
Do you think you’d be amenable to either of those proposals?
Senator Cash
Andrew, given that it’s not my portfolio and Anne is currently working through the recommendations, it would be remiss of me to actually step into a space that isn’t my portfolio, as I said though, we have been upfront with the Government. We will work with them. We want to see a sustainable sector. We’ve made that offer to them. Anne is currently working through the report. At this point in time, more questions than answers. But we have said of course we will work with the Government to ensure a more sustainable sector if they put forward appropriate reforms.
Andrew Clennell
Well, this does cross your portfolio. What’s your reaction tothe latest Fair Work Commission decision – 14% rise for Aged Care workers?
Senator Cash
Yeah, absolutely. And we had always said, decisions of the Fair Work Commission, and this happened when we were in government, were just that – decisions of the Fair Work Commission. So we respect the decision of the Fair Work Commission. We have always said these are low paid workers that do an absolutely outstanding job, and obviously the pay rise for them is welcome. And the question does become though, how do you actually fund that pay rise? And you’ve always got to ensure you do not compromise service in the process. But again, this is a decision for the Fair Work Commission. We respect the decision from the Fair Work Commission, and certainly, as I said, these workers, they do an outstanding job. They deserve this pay rise. But the bigger question is, in terms of the workforce, it’s actually now the workforce shortage and how that is having a detrimental impact on the sector. And we want to see a comprehensive workforce strategy brought forward by the Government to address those workforce shortages.
Andrew Clennell
So Treasurer Jim Chalmers came out last week and said that people shouldn’t expect a lot of cost of living help in the budget. You’re already getting tax cuts. What’s your reaction to that?
Senator Cash
Again, like this is a cost of living crisis that is of the government’s own making. They were so distracted with the Voice for the first 18 months in office. They only suddenly woke up and realised Australians are now doing it tough. The one thing that I would say to the Government is, you know, this is a crisis of your own making, you need to look across portfolios and the impact of the decisions you are making. I mean, I love the fact, Andrew, just talking about Jim Chalmers though, I mean, what about his response to your FOI? It’s all too much. We can’t provide you with the documents in relation to whether or not they’re actually going to announce changes to negative gearing. I mean, what a joke. This is a government that talked big on transparency prior to the election. You put in an FOI, they come back with an excuse. But what you do now know is that there is a lot of documents in relation to the briefing of the Treasurer in relation to negative gearing. What we also know he’s using the same weasel words as he did when he was basically misleading, you could say lying to the Australian people about the stage three tax cuts. So what I would say to you, Andrew, you’re onto something, keep pursuing it, and watch this space.
Andrew Clennell
Alright, just one final question. We’re nearly out of time. You’re expecting some action on the Government’s religious discrimination laws this week. What are we expecting?
Senator Cash
So basically, this is the absolute final day on Thursday that the government can table the ALRC response. They’ve had it for a number of months. I am hearing very concerning things from stakeholders. The government has literally told the majority of stakeholders they are not being consulted. Those they are consulting, get this Andrew, people of faith, they have been gagged from saying anything. I’m also hearing the Government wants to rush through these changes without an inquiry. That is completely, totally and utterly unacceptable. There is a real risk here that religious schools will not be able to conduct themselves in accordance with their values. And what they’re saying to me is, “Michaelia, we just want to educate. Under Mark Dreyfus, and Anthony Albanese, we’re going to end up litigating.” We also know that they’re going to bring in an anti-vilification law. I’m hearing concerning comments in relation to that, that it could potentially be a blasphemy law with criminal penalties associated with it. So could you just criticise someone’s religion and someone takes offence and you’re off to jail? So this is a huge issue. It affects tens of thousands of families. And I would say to the Government, be open and transparent in the way you deal with it. We must have a Senate inquiry into this because ultimately, I just want religious schools to be able to operatein accordance with their values, their doctrines and beliefs. This is all about families and the choices they make to send their children to those schools.
Andrew Clennell
Shadow Attorney-General Michaelia Cash, thanks so much for your time.
Senator Cash
Great to be here.
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