Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Senator for Western Australia
TRANSCRIPT
Sky News Afternoon Agenda with Andrew Clennell
Topics: industrial relations, Voice referendum, SPA flights
4 September 2023
E&OE.
Andrew Clennell
For more on this let’s bring in Shadow Workplace Relations Minister Michaelia Cash. Michaelia Cash, thanks for your time. What do you make of what you’ve heard of these IR laws so far?
Senator Cash
Well based on Minister Burke’s own admission, he is currently introducing into the parliament industrial relations laws that will actually add more complexity to an already complex system. Why you would wrap businesses around Australia in more red tape is absolutely beyond me. But he’s also admitted that as a result of his changes, consumer prices will go up. And again, why when Australians are currently living through a cost of living crisis, you would openly admit your IR legislation is going to do that, is only a question that Mr. Burke can answer.
Andrew Clennell
Well, I guess his answer would be that workers end up with higher wages. And that’s what he’s about. What would you say to that? The small businesses are being cut out of the labour hire provisions. Do you welcome that at least?
Senator Cash
Well that’s not what businesses are saying, and remember it’s the employers of this country who employ people. They have stood together and they have said this IR legislation will be job destroying, you’re attacking labour hire, a legitimate form of employment, you’re attacking the gig economy, but in particular, the flexibility that the gig economy provides in relation to casuals. The Coalition, we were the ones that took confusion out of being a casual. He’s about to re-legislate the confusion. And of course the Road Safety Remuneration Tribunal and owner drivers, he’s got a lot of questions to answer. Well let’s just wait and see, because with Labor the one thing I have learned is the devil is always in the detail. The detail will come to us later on this afternoon. But it doesn’t matter. I’ve spoken with COSBOA, I’ve spoken with ACCI, I’ve spoken with AI Group: you might cut them out of this much of the legislation, but guess what? They still have to navigate the rest of the legislation. Andrew, you tell me, what small business in Australia has the time or the money to navigate the complexity that Mr. Burke is today adding to the system? All that does is have a detrimental impact on their business and a detrimental impact on those they employ.
Andrew Clennell
Were firms like QANTAS and BHP being taking the mickey a bit though, with their labour hire arrangements?
Senator Cash
So if Mr. Burke was actually dinkum about closing the labour hire loophole that he says he’s closing, you would directly target the legislation to QANTAS, BHP and those doing that, but he hasn’t. He’s not defining labour hire. He’s bringing in a whole lot of independent contractors, service contractors, and what he’s saying is, but I’ve listened to them, and I’m putting in place a convoluted multi-factor test, which they all have to work through to work out whether or not they’re in, they’re out. And it’s the Fair Work Commission that will ultimately make the decision. Again, Mr Burke speaks with forked tongue often when he refers to closing the loopholes. Anything but that.
Andrew Clennell
Which of these provisions – casuals, labor hire, gig economy, wage theft – concern you the most?
Senator Cash
Look, I’d say they all do. In relation to wage theft, we as a Coalition Government brought the criminalisation of wage theft to the Parliament when we were last in government. And guess what? Labor and Mr. Burke, they voted against it at the time. So it’s incredibly convenient that this time round they want to actually put it on the table.
Andrew Clennell
So you potentially agree with that aspect?
Senator Cash
Again, devil in detail, and need to see it. Labour hire, gig economy and casuals – adding complexity to an already complex system. All this does is impact businesses and their ability to employ. Cost of living crisis, businesses themselves, they are screaming out to the government for relief. And today Tony Burke openly admits more complexity, and your costs will go up. Hardly a ringing endorsement for the Australian people.
Andrew Clennell
You did warn the sky was going to fall in over the multi-employer bargaining. That hasn’t happened though.
Senator Cash
Well, that was actually backing in the National Farmers Federation and what they said could happen in relation to an attack on their industry.
Andrew Clennell
Did you over egg that?
Senator Cash
They only commenced on June the 6th. They haven’t been in place for that long. And the union’s play a long game, Andrew, it doesn’t happen overnight. You’ve actually got to have enterprise agreements come to their expiry date. You look at something like the ports, well it could be two years before they come to their natural expiry date. So there is a long way to go, but what you have mentioned is this: first tranche, additional red tape; this tranche, more red tape. You wrap businesses up in red tape, that is a recipe for disaster. It is not the productivity agenda that businesses are screaming out for.
Andrew Clennell
No, look, there’s been complaints productivity is not getting mentioned enough. But does this work electorally though for Labor? They are being seen to help workers and you can argue it will cost jobs but unemployment is never been lower.
Senator Cash
Well unemployment, on their own projections, is projected to go up. The employers of Australia are openly saying this is not going to help us adding complexity to an already complex system. The Fair Work Act’s like this, believe you me navigating that system is difficult. But as I said, let’s wait to see, the devil is in the detail. And I’ll be waiting to see what the businesses themselves, but in particular small businesses, have to say once they’ve had an opportunity to read the legislation.
Andrew Clennell
What’s your reaction to Peter Dutton yesterday committing to another referendum?
Senator Cash
Well Peter has basically said that this could have been a unifying moment for our prime minister. Australians overwhelmingly support constitutional recognition. You would have thought that the Prime Minister of Australia would have said to Peter, we can work together on this and deliver a unifying moment for our country. But instead, the prime minister plays politics and puts forward what he says is constitutional recognition and then he’s got a whisper through a voice, because that’s where his problems are.
Andrew Clennell
Do you really want to spend another $300 million on another referendum?
Senator Cash
We want to deliver a unifying moment for all Australians. And Peter Dutton has been upfront from day one, and said that to Anthony Albanese. It’s Anthony Albanese, who based on the current polling, and believe you me, there is a long way to go, we don’t have the $100 million and 100 million woke corporates, John Farnham, you name it, they’re all out there. Again, there’s a long way to go and the $100 million dollars is yet to be spent.
Andrew Clennell
You’d be pretty confident with those figures there that we just flashed up though, wouldn’t you? 38 percent support no. Alright. But Mr. Dutton supports regional voice bodies, but the Nationals don’t. That’s a bit of a problem, isn’t it?
Senator Cash
Well again, that is our policy. We were looking at them and working with them in the last election. Ultimately, though, guess what? We’re not in government. We’re in opposition. Over the next six weeks, the focus is on Mr. Albanese and his risky, unknown, divisive and permanent Voice. You’ve got to laugh at the irony of the song seriously, “the voice, try and understand it”. That’s going viral all over Australia now – the hypocrisy and irony of it. But the irony of it. I mean, how would you actually highlight with the Australian people, “the voice, try and understand it”? And they go, “Well, we are”. But there are no details. Mr. Albanese.
Andrew Clennell
Alright, in the House of Reps, I know you’re in the Senate, Peter Dutton went Richard Marles over these flights. But people in government have sort of made the point that Peter Dutton was after fights to the Matilda’s. So are you on a bit of thin ice here?
Senator Cash
No not at all. This is a government that preached transparency prior to the election. There’s a $3.6 million question now hanging over Richard Marles’ head. In 2016 he was one of the most vocal opposition members in relation to the release of information on these flights. It’s a very simple question, were you using the spa as your own personal taxi? If so, just be upfront and say it. If you took your golf clubs on it, just be upfront and say it. It’s a simple question, yes or no.
Andrew Clennell
My information is he took his golf clubs so you could play with the Singaporean and Cambodian Defence Ministers.
Senator Cash
So why couldn’t he answer that question in question time today with that explanation? Because he’s got something to hide. It’s $3.6 million and he needs to come clean with the Australian people. Live the transparency that his government, when in opposition, preached. They would be the be all end all if elected to office. Well, they’re not.
Andrew Clennell
Seen that act a few times. Look, just finally the PM is addressing the Minerals Council dinner tonight. What do you reckon the reception will be? Interesting timing.
Senator Cash
Well I have to say, interesting timing, and quite frankly, why even bother? You’re doing everything you can to put these people out of business, at least be upfront with them and say I don’t respect your industry, I’m wrapping you in red tape, your cost of doing business will go up, but hey, I’m the prime minister, and I’m delivering on a union agenda.
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