Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
BEN SMALL
Liberal Candidate for Forrest
TRANSCRIPT
SEN Spirit Radio 621 Bunbury Jarred on Breakfast
Topics: Detainee bashing of WA grandmother, small business, mental health, cost of living, immigration, car and ute tax, EVs, Forrest campaign
1 May 2024
E&OE
Jarred O’Brien
SEN Spirit, it is Jarred with you and it’s now time to catch up with a couple of fantastic guests we have in the studio and first of all, I’ll bring in Michaelia Cash, Senator Michaelia Cash, I should say, how are you this morning?
Senator Cash
Absolutely fantastic. I mean, who can’t be fantastic when they wake up to that gorgeous ocean view, first thing in Bunbury. Fabulous to join you.
Jarred O’Brien
And on the other side of the desk, we have Ben Small. How are you this morning, Ben?
Ben Small
Yeah, great. Thanks, Jarred. Great to be here, mate.
Jarred O’Brien
And course the Liberal for Forrest, mate (inaudible) opening the office last night, let’s kick off with that. How did that go?
Senator Cash
It was like – how many people were there? It was fabulous!
Ben Small
Almost 100 people. It’s great to get some momentum early in the campaign, be out and about in our community talking about things that matter to local people. So, to have everyone turn out, and have a good time and the energy in the room was amazing. And it’s basically a clear message that the Liberals are here to stay in Forrest.
Jarred O’Brien
Absolutely fantastic mate, and the office looking absolutely stunning as well. You’ve done a great job. And in the Homemakers Centre, right between Chicken Treat and the bottleshop there, so it’s not hard to find.
Ben Small
Everything that a campaign needs, Jarred.
Senator Cash
Where is Ben located? Between Chicken Treat and the bottleshop.
Ben Small
Anyone that knows me would know that that was a very strategic choice.
Jarred O’Brien
Fantastic. Now I wanted to, start let’s start off with something not so nice and Michaelia I want to throw it to you. Yesterday’s West Australian and the front page. It’s very shocking. Give us your thoughts and your overview.
Senator Cash
I think anybody who woke up yesterday and saw the front page of The West Australian would have been highly distressed. What’s more is, this is purely at the feet of Mr. Albanese and his ministers Andrew Giles and Clare O’Neil. It is exactly the scenario that we as Liberals have been warning about, and Mr. Albanese has failed to take action. This is just now a rolling disaster for the Albanese Government. It is a litany of failure coming from their incompetent ministers. But what is worse, Jarred? It was actually avoidable. Mr. Albanese keeps telling Australians everything is okay in relation to the release of these detainees onto the street. We know that that is now it is a lie, quite frankly, a lie. And the front page of The West Australian, that poor woman and her husband bashed in their own home. If Mr. Albanese doesn’t sack Minister Giles well then, quite frankly, Mr. Albanese needs to reconsider his own position.
Ben Small
Michaelia, these were people who had given up their jewelry, given these bandits what they wanted, and then were violently assaulted in their own home.
Senator Cash
And the thing is, as I said, it was avoidable. What people possibly don’t know is this. The accused was previously charged with breaching his visa. You’ve got to be kidding me. The lawyer representing the Commonwealth, in other words, paid by the taxpayer, did not oppose granting him bail. I’d want to know on behalf of Western Australians, which minister signed off on that? Not only that, what about this electronic monitoring that Mr. Albanese keeps saying to the Australian people? It’s okay. They’ve got electronic monitoring. Well, where was the electronic monitoring that we were promised? How on earth did this happen? And as I say, if Mr. Albanese doesn’t sack Minister Giles for his incompetence, then quite frankly, perhaps Mr. Albanese needs to consider his own position.
Jarred O’Brien
It’s very unfortunate we keep seeing more and more of these and when it happens a bit closer to home too that’s when you start to feel them. You never like to see it happen at all obviously, but when it starts happening a bit closer to home and you see pictures like you saw on the front of yesterday’s West Australian of that, that poor lady, my heart just goes out.
Senator Cash
That’s just it. As Ben said, they’d handed over their jewelry. Why couldn’t it just stop there if it had to happen at all? Their own home? She’s got cancer. I mean, this is your worst nightmare come true. But it’s your worst nightmare that was avoidable. And Mr. Albanese continues to say, it’s not my fault. Well, guess what Mr. Albanese? It’s your government. You let those people out onto the street. The Commonwealth lawyer did not oppose the granting of this person bail. When is it going to be your responsibility?
Ben Small
Those were known rapists, murderers, pedophiles, and violent criminals. I just imagine if it was my mum that was on the front page of yesterday’s paper and how that – that’s what brings it home.
Senator Cash
You would be demanding action, wouldn’t you. You’d be demanding action and from this government, all you’d get is excuses. What a joke.
Jarred O’Brien
Let’s focus a little bit on local stuff now. And Ben, let’s talk about local business. You’re a local business owner here in the South West, Small’s Bar, a great little bar. Look, I live just around the corner, so I definitely have frequented it once or twice. Ben, how is business, in your business and on out your way and out talking to the members, the people of Forrest. How’s it feeling?
Ben Small
Well, look Jarred, I think there’s one message shining through and that’s that people are doing it really tough. We’ve certainly seen it through the bar and I love to see a regular like yourself out and about, but people are doing it tough and they’re sort of pulling back on their expenditure. We’ve got $5 pints at the moment as a bit of a way to say ‘hey, we know you’re doing it tough’ and people are coming in saying gee, thanks so much. You’ve done wonders for our mental health by allowing us to come out and socialise for the first time in months. That’s how tough it has been.
Jarred O’Brien
We’ve been through a tough time when you look at it. We had the COVID – I hate talking about COVID but unfortunately it’s part of the news cycle. We got locked up basically. And then we’ve come out the other side. Cost of living is skyrocketing, renting, housing, all that sort of stuff has gone through the roof. We haven’t got to enjoy the things in life that help with mental health and it’s funny I hadn’t thought about it until we talked about it before the chat today, the mental health side of not going out and doing stuff.
Ben Small
Nola Marino and I were out at the Harvey Show on the weekend. And there was a reasonable crowd there. People had turned up but they weren’t spending. You could see that – you know kids wanted to go on rides, parents were saying they can’t afford it. Stall owners were saying it’s the quietest show they can remember because you know business is down, people aren’t spending. There’s real pain in our community. The Boyanup farmers market was heaving on the weekend because people are actively looking for the cheapest foods they can find.
Senator Cash
Food under Mr. Albanese, despite all of his promises prior to the election is up 10%. Jarred, you mentioned housing. It is up 12%. Insurance – I mean, you’ve got to have insurance for that rainy day in case it does go wrong. It’s up 26%. Mr. Albanese, big promise prior to the election, I’ll tackle inflation. Well, guess what Mr. Albanese, under your government, inflation is winning. But you raised a really good point in relation to mental health. And I have to say, the revelation that as Prime Minister, Mr. Albanese had not once met with the Mental Health Australia Chair Matt Berryman? I mean, seriously, again, is this government serious about tackling any issues in Australia? Or is it just talk, talk, talk, press release, press release, press release, and then no action at all? Because I mean, Mr. Berryman, this is a pretty significant decision. He stepped down from his role. He was at his wit’s end, in terms of Labor’s approach to mental health. And he felt that all he could do to highlight the deficiencies of the Albanese government was to step down. Again, when is this government going to get serious?
Ben Small
And I mean, doesn’t matter who you talk to at the moment, whether it’s young people coming out of school, trying to find their way in the world, whether it’s farmers who haven’t had rain in months, whether it’s small business owners who are under massive cost increases –
Senator Cash
The IR system – costs, complexity, confusion – why would you become a small business owner? I mean, Ben, you are a small business owner? And the question I bet you get all the time is why?
Ben Small
Exactly. We want it to be easy for people to have a go, take risks, employ people and create something and yet increasingly, it’s one hit after another.
Senator Cash
Courtesy of the Albanese government though!
Jarred O’Brien
And Michaelia, you see it on a on a broader spectrum, I guess. Is this the feeling right across WA and the broader, let’s go, Australia?
Senator Cash
Oh look. Absolutely and in particular when you go east. And it is a little bit different, obviously here in the west. But I mean, you talk about electricity and gas costs, good grief, I mean, they are up 18 and 25% respectively. I mean the east coast when it comes to the energy prices, it is crippling them, but it just doesn’t matter where I go now Jarred. you know it’s always good to walk through a shopping centre, no matter where you are. Great to be able to go down to a shopping centre because you actually touch base with everyday Australians just doing what we all have to do every single day. Go to the shops and buy a few things. Without fail now, people will seek you out and come down and say Mr. Albanese told me before the election, he would do this, this and this. I believed him. I voted for him. Did he lie to me? He has failed me. None of what he said has come true. And then when you look at the actual figures, as I said, this isn’t me talking as a Liberal Senator, this isn’t Ben talking as the Liberal candidate for Forrest – under the Albanese government, it is a fact. Food inflation is 10%. How do mum and dad on a daily basis actually afford life under Mr. Albanese? I mean, you know what we’d always said, life wouldn’t be easy under Mr. Albanese. Well guess what, almost two years into their government, that is what the Australian people are now understanding.
Ben Small
Michaelia, you’re right we’ve been shielded from our power price increases a little bit here in the west and we all know that comes from the iron ore royalty. The reality is though that our grid here is creaking. The Binningup desal plant has been offline more than 12 times since November because the state government asked them to shut down. There’s not enough power.
Senator Cash
I mean, seriously, on what planet does your state government have to say we can’t afford for the lights to go out. Could you actually just shut down? Well, that’s a Labor government.
Ben Small
We’ve got watering days now. We’re going to have air conditioning days next summer, you know, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday might be your days for a good night’s sleep next summer, but I’m not a big fan to be honest.
Senator Cash
And what about winter as well though, I mean, it can get pretty cold. What about people who do need to heat their homes so they can actually keep themselves and their kids warm?
Ben Small
State Labor, obviously burning the firewood in this state. That’s yet to have a real impact. I mean, as we go into winter, cost pressures are real. People are seeing double the price they’re having to pay for firewood versus last year. These are the sorts of decisions that little bit by little bit, Labor are hurting Australians.
Jarred O’Brien
It’s a world that is certainly – looking from a consumers point of view, obviously, I don’t have the pressures that you do from a government point of view. It’s hard. I’ve got a family of five, myself and my partner, and she’s just gone back to work yesterday. Just to top up the coffers a little bit. You know, we’ve been lucky, we bought a house just before the prices went through the boom and all that sort of stuff but you know when you’re looking at about 300 bucks a week for shopping to feed a family of five it quickly adds up.
Senator Cash
And the thing is with the 300 bucks are you getting as much? This is just it – you walk out and you look in the trolley and you think half of it’s missing but I’ve paid just as much. And then you mentioned buying a house. Well, what about people who want a mortgage with interest rates under Labor? I mean 12 rate hikes. I think the statistic is if you’re on a mortgage of around $750,000, under Labor you are now paying an additional $24,000 a year. Now I don’t know where you’re finding that $24,000. But Mr. Albanese promised you everything would be okay. But as you said Ben 12 rate hikes. How is that okay?
Ben Small
And that’s if you can get a house. Here in the South West, it doesn’t matter who you talk to, story is the same. If you’re lucky enough to get a rental, it’s at 100 bucks more than it was last year. If you’re looking to build a house and you’ve overcome the three-year wait for a new house, it’s costing you extra on your mortgage. There’s plenty of people who literally cannot get their own house. They’re living with relatives, they’re getting around in their cars, they’re lurching from short-term situation to short-term situation. We have a genuine housing crisis in the west.
Senator Cash
We do. And it’s compounded by – I mean this country, when it comes to immigration, we are without a doubt the most successful multicultural nation in the world. However, with the number that Mr. Albanese and Labor are bringing in, this is the problem. You can’t say on one hand we have a housing crisis and on the other, continue to bring in people from overseas. Where do you put them, let alone where do you put an Australian who is looking for a house, and Mr. Albanese seems to think you can have it both ways. Guess what Mr. Albanese, you can’t.
Ben Small
They talk about cutting migration –
Senator Cash
And they don’t do it.
Ben Small
But they allowed in more than half a million people.
Senator Cash
Correct. More than half a million people.
Ben Small
In the last year.
Senator Cash
And then they wonder why there’s a housing crisis?
Jarred O’Brien
Michaelia, I want to ask you about your drive down to Bunbury yesterday. You took notice at how many cars are on the road and obviously they’re looking at taxing SUVs. Look, we’d all love to move into a cleaner cars, but it’s the feasibility of actually doing that for a lot of families, for the size that you can get. You know, I spend a lot of time travelling country roads. I have a couple of outside of work gigs that I do that involve late night travels to different towns around the South West. You need something that’s big and can handle the route.
Senator Cash
Yeah, that can do the job and that is exactly right. Chris Bowen clearly does not understand: a) Australians, but put that aside. He doesn’t understand the great state of Western Australia. The fact that when it comes to electric vehicles, show me the infrastructure please – it’s not there. But not only there. I mean, I drove down here yesterday as you know, I mean, that’s something that people do every day, that drive, it’s a few 100 k’s. You know, it took me two hours with traffic yesterday. Pretty good run actually. But what am I seeing on the road? Well guess what? Mainly SUVs and why? Because it is the car of choice. It does the job you need it to do, whether it is for work, for towing, or even I mean like you. A few kids, great car, put them in the back. Nice and comfortable, off you go. But I mean, Labor’s ute tax – what a complete joke. I mean, the cost of Australian families’ favourite vehicles will increase, get this, by thousands of dollars. Why? Because of Chris Bowen and his obsession with pushing Australians into something that in particular in the great state of Western Australia, we are in no way ready for. Again, ideological obsession, by the Albanese government, at the expense of the family car.
Ben Small
Whether you’re a boatie, a farmer, a tradie, a fisher, a caravanner. If you’ve got a big family.
Senator Cash
BCF. Exactly.
Ben Small
Come over here, Anthony Albanese and Chris Bowen, and see what it’s like in the South West. 500 k’s is not a big day.
Senator Cash
And you know, I mean we’ve been up north before, obviously, for our Liberal Party functions, Ben and I. And when you talk to the station owners and you’re saying ‘oh mate, where did you come in from?’ And they go ‘oh yeah, drove in last night, a thousand k’s. But seriously what are they driving, an electric vehicle? I don’t think so. I’m pretty sure it’s a Land Cruiser diesel. You’ve got to be kidding me. I mean, but Mr. Bowen doesn’t get any of that, he’s not interested in the practical reality of life in Western Australia, versus a left-wing ideological obsession that this government wants to impose on you. None of us are opposed to cleaner vehicles. None of us are opposed to cleaner efficiency standards. However, what we are opposed to is Labor telling us we have to when we’re not ready.
Ben Small
Jarred, you mentioned going down to Buffalo Beach on the weekend with the kids, you know, good luck with that in a Tesla.
Jarred O’Brien
The Tesla would still be down there.
Senator Cash
But not only that. What happens if you’re sort of sixth in queue to charge up? Hope the kids are fed and watered and ready for a sleep, because if they’re not, seriously –
Ben Small
You better have some snacks –
Senator Cash
And preferably not sugary ones!
Jarred O’Brien
Let’s turn our attention, this seems to be, every corner I turn, comes up in conversation, the wind farm off the coast, which will stretch basically from Mandurah down to Dunsborough way. I will throw it open to either of you. What’s the story, where are we at and what are your thoughts on it?
Ben Small
Jarred, I grew up sailing on Geographe Bay, you know, it was my backyard as a kid and I want future generations of young Western Australians to be able to do that, whether they’re fishing, diving or playing. So, I guess at the outset, my lived experience really sort of shaped my approach, but coming to it with an open mind, Nola Marino and I went to the Bunbury consultation meetings a few weeks ago and I say consultation in inverted comments because it was anything but. We turned up for our questions to be answered. We turned up for information to be given. We got nothing. The reality is, that any project worth its salt, stacks up on an environmental basis, on an economic basis and on a social basis. This project, that Anthony Albanese and Chris Bowen are trying to railroad us into, has none of it. The economics stink because offshore power is expensive and it’s carbon intensive to install, maintain, and then decommission. Ultimately, there are environmental concerns, very real ones, around the impact on wildlife migration and all the tourism businesses in the South West that hang off the back of Geographe Bay and the Busselton Jetty and whale watching businesses and that sort of thing. And then from a social licence point of view, it doesn’t matter where you go into South West at the moment, whether it’s up in Mandurah, down in Busselton or Dunsborough – people do not want their iconic Geographe Bay to be polluted with towers that are taller than the biggest skyscraper in Perth and that is the scale of what is proposed.
Senator Cash
But does Chris Bowen even know that? Because I don’t think he even cares, because Ben, you hit the nail on the head in terms of social licence. This government fails every step of the way, when it comes to consultation. I don’t know who Chris Bowen consults with other than himself. Sounds like great idea, Chris. Yes, Chris. It does. Okay. Let’s go and do it. Perhaps he needs to come to Western Australia and front the people down here as you did the other night. You went to the council meeting.
Ben Small
Great meeting down in Busso. More than 300 Busselton ratepayers requested that meeting and then turned up on a Wednesday night to be heard. Because it’s very clear that Canberra is not listening.
Senator Cash
Good on you for listening, Ben, and standing up for them, and shame on Chris Bowen. But you see, Chris Bowen has form. The ute tax – not listening. The Hunter Valley, and the wind farms – not listening. Geographe Bay in Western Australia – not listening. I mean yesterday, or recently in the Western Australian newspaper. I mean, you have a peak fishing group coming out with very serious concerns and saying, ‘we are not being heard’. Seriously, Mr. Bowen, come down to Busselton, front the hundreds and hundreds of people who want to give you good information about their concerns, and listen to them and take them on board. Consultation though, is not a hallmark of the Albanese government.
Ben Small
This is the minister who wants to build 28,000 kilometres of poles and wires. What does that mean, Jarred? That means if you started building power lines right here in the South West, you go the whole way around the globe and get to Sydney. And he’s doing it in an off budget slush fund because he doesn’t want you to know –
Senator Cash
Or the taxpayer to know –
Ben Small
How much of your money he’s shovelling into the project. That is what this government’s up to.
Jarred O’Brien
It’s very interesting, I reckon it’s a bit of a ‘watch that one’, (inaudible), and I’m with you on the City of Busselton. They did a fantastic job of listening to the ratepayers and making that happen. I was talking to the Mayor of Busselton last week and he was excited to get that meeting happening. And it’s great that it’s happened, and I think we’ll see more of that as it progresses through. Let’s talk a little bit about you, Ben. And obviously the Liberal candidate for Forrest, mate. Where are we sitting and how are you going with it? I know you’ve been a very busy man. And don’t forget we’re going sailing in October as well just on the side.
Ben Small
Look, I promised Jarred we’d get him out on Koombana Bay and we would show him what the action is on the water. So I’ll honor that. I guess Nola Marino has been the MP here for 17 years and people are very used to her being the Liberal face. So we’ve got to do everything we can now, for me as the new Liberal face, to earn their vote at the coming election. The message is pretty clear that if you want to change the country, if you want to change the government, vote Liberal at the coming election. And so getting people to understand that I’m here. I understand their issues, and I’m prepared to stand up in Canberra, and call a spade, a shovel. That’ll be my job over the coming months, and it’s great to have people like Michaelia Cash, one of our most senior shadow ministers down here in the South West to get a clear sense of what matters here, so that when she gets on that plane and goes back to Canberra to hold the Albanese government to account, it’s on the issues that matter.
Jarred O’Brien
It certainly does. Nola actually watches over me, she’s on the opposite corner over here, every morning. That’s actually why the curtain’s closed, I get scared sometimes, it’s like Nola’s looking in the window there at the side of the building.
Ben Small
She runs a tight ship!
Jarred O’Brien
She certainly does! It’s great to see Ben and obviously being such a huge part of this community. You have the understanding of the small business, you live, you breathe this area so it’s great to see that you’re going to strive for but is there anything that you want to put out to the listeners today, whether it be here on the radio or the Facebook group, wherever they might be listening today?
Ben Small
I guess look, I grew up here, Jarred. I spent 10 years on the road as a volunteer ambo, I’ve started a small business here. So I think, I’m from here, I get it. And I want to be part of putting our message on the national stage. But I’d encourage people to get in touch, whether it’s through social media or the website or what. And let me know what you think, what matters to you, because ultimately we can only be effective in politics if we reflect our communities on the national stage.
Jarred O’Brien
And Michaelia, you’re from the outside looking in at Ben and his progression through all this – have you got any advice for him or any advice for the community?
Senator Cash
Well a) vote Ben Small, Liberal for Forrest, but b) why? Passionate, dedicated, enthusiastic. As you say, Ben, you are from Forrest, you believe in Forrest, but more than that, you’re someone who’s served your community, but you continue to serve your community by having a small business, Small’s Bar in Eaton. You understand, in particular, the concerns of small business. Labor wouldn’t have a clue. I often say, the closest anyone in Labor has ever gotten to a small business is to proudly close it down. And we’re seeing more and more of that in particular. I’ll put my industrial relations head on here because of the changes they’ve made to the industrial relations system. Labor believe that government should not just be in your life or your business, it should be running your business. Ben and I, and Ben knows this as a small business owner, our very simple philosophy as the Liberal Party, is government should not be in your life. Ben and I are part of, you know, a political party that understands the best thing we can do for you, is simplify the system. Get rid of the cost, get rid of the complexity, get rid of the confusion, and basically get out of your life. So, in voting in Ben Small as the Liberal member for Forrest, you’re not only getting one of your own, you get someone who understands you firsthand on a daily basis. And if I was someone in Forrest, that’s who I’d want representing me every single day of the week in Canberra.
Jarred O’Brien
Fantastic Ben, I think you’ve got Michaelia behind you, and I’m sure plenty of the South West as well, any closing remarks?
Ben Small
I’d laughed at Michaelia’s comment there about Labor and what it’s doing to small business only because otherwise, frankly, you’d cry. It is tough out there, I get it. And I’m looking forward to, over the coming months, standing up for the people who are doing it tough in the South West.
Jarred O’Brien
Fantastic. It was great to have you on board. I’m so happy that we can come in the studio and do this. I love having a chat about what’s happening in the world. And it’s always nice because people want to hear the truth. They want to hear what’s happening out there. So, thanks for joining us, Michaelia and Ben Small.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you.
Ben Small
Cheers, Jarred.
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