Sky News Afternoon Agenda with Andrew Clennell

7 August 2023

Topics: Sofronoff inquiry, ABC, industrial relations, Roger Cook, WA aboriginal heritage laws

E&OE.

Andrew Clennell

Well in the studio with me now is the Deputy Senate Leader for the Opposition for the Liberals, Michaelia Cash. Plenty to get through.

Senator Cash

There’s a lot to get through Andrew.

Andrew Clennell

I’m pretty stunned by the developments around this Drumgold report, Lehrmann report, Sofronoff report, not sure what to call it. What do you make of it all? Sounds like Sofronoff and Drumgold could be charged according to what the ACT Chief Minister just said.

Senator Cash

Well in the first instance, I’m very, very pleased to see that the report has now been released in full. As we saw from the media reporting, there were very, very serious allegations of misconduct that had been found by Mr. Sofronoff but in particular, that had literally struck at the heart of confidence in the ACT justice system. Australians, it does not matter where you are, you must have confidence in your justice system. I am pleased to see that the ACT government have said they have accepted all 10 recommendations because the ACT government have a big job ahead of them to restore faith in their justice system. People need to know if you have a trial, it must be a fair trial, you must be tried fairly. But in particular, prosecutors must actually discharge their obligations without fear or favour.

Andrew Clennell

Should Shane Drumgold be charged? Clearly you think he should have lost his job.

Senator Cash

That is a decision for the ACT government and that is something that I see Minister Barr or Chief Minister Barr says the ACT government and the authorities are working through. But again, just look at the findings – serious allegations of misconduct. You know, if you don’t have confidence in your justice system as Australians, what do you have? If you are ever charged, you want to know that if a matter is going to trial and in particular a criminal trial… a criminal trial – that the prosecutors in particular act without fear or favour? So again, I’m pleased to see that the ACT government have accepted the 10 recommendations. But I think there’s a long, long, long way to go to actually restore confidence in the ACT justice system.

Andrew Clennell

What about the actions of Walter Sofronoff leaking the report?

Senator Cash

Well again, that is a matter for Mr. Sofronoff. He is obviously an incredibly accomplished barrister, he was appointed by the ACT government, the release of the report is between him and the ACT government. But from briefly what I saw, in relation to what he said about the release is that he had released it under embargo. But again, they are matters for both the ACT government and Mr. Sofronoff. But ultimately, I think all Australians will be very pleased that the report itself is now out there for everybody to see. But as I said, the ACT government, big job ahead of them in restoring confidence in their justice system.

Andrew Clennell

Alright, you’re the Shadow Attorney-General, do you think we should be able to trust the ACT justice system? Because after this, you’d have some questions wouldn’t you?

Senator Cash

Well again, the ACT government, they have been very quick to accept all 10 recommendations. And I do think that is a good step in the right direction. But again, when you have such serious allegations of misconduct and in particular, the allegation that documents (the Moller report) was say withheld from the defense. I think everybody is entitled to say – hey hold on, we now do have a lack of confidence in the justice system. Confidence in the justice system has to be a basic foundation for all Australians.

Andrew Clennell

Do you think Bruce Lehrmann should have been charged? Because I think what Sofronoff found from what the leaks have been reported, that was okay?

Senator Cash

Well ultimately, that was not a decision for me. But I do note, as you stated that the media had reported that Mr. Sofronoff did find that the prosecution was properly bought. I haven’t yet had an opportunity to read the report – it was only just released. But again, look I’m just very happy it’s all out there for the public to see. But also that the ACT government (in the first instance), has accepted the 10 recommendations. From my perspective, if you don’t have confidence in your justice system – dot dot dot.

Andrew Clennell

Well, that’s the concern, isn’t it?

Senator Cash

It is.

Andrew Clennell

Let’s move on. I want to ask about this incident in your home state holding the ABC.

Senator Cash

Seriously…

Andrew Clennell

We got hold of this photograph of the ABC crew outside the house of the Woodside Chief, Meg O’Neil. What do you think should happen in connection with this?

Senator Cash

Well you know and thank goodness you’re actually able to show that photograph because you have a statement released by the ABC in relation to what occurred. And then suddenly, I think it was on your show, you actually flash up a photograph – the CCTV that was taken at the time, which actually shows perhaps it wasn’t quite as the ABC themselves have said. So I think the Senate should have an inquiry into this matter.

Andrew Clennell

And you’re moving that?

Senator Cash

Yep, we lodged that. And I really hope that the Australian Labor Party come on board in good faith and support the inquiry. The ABC are currently inquiring into themselves, I say that is not good enough. This is taxpayers money – we pay for the ABC. The taxpayers of Australia are entitled to an open and transparent inquiry. Now, why? Because Andrew as you and I know, there are lines in both politics and journalism that you do not cross. Going onto someone’s private property is a line that should never be crossed. And based on the photo.

Andrew Clennell

Alright, well let’s have a look at that photo again if we can. And that the ABC are telling me technically, that’s not a private property?

Senator Cash

Technically, love technically. Okay so the last time I checked, if I walked outside the front of my house and I stood on my driveway, guess what? I’d pretty much say it was my property. But it’s not just the photo, there are so many questions that now need to be answered. What did they know? And when?

Andrew Clennell

Legally, technically… What’s your suspicion on that?

Senator Cash

My suspicion is that you do need a Senate inquiry because of the fact that you have a statement that was released, a statement that was amended, a photograph which shows that basically what was said is not really the case. This is taxpayers money.

Andrew Clennell

Because they say we were told an address, we didn’t know it was residential.

Senator Cash

Really?

Andrew Clennell

We rock up there and the cops were already there. That’s what the ABC said.

Senator Cash

The last time I was given an address (I don’t know about you), pretty much people Google Map it straightaway, don’t they?

Andrew Clennell

Yeah.

Senator Cash

And when you are driving through City Beach?

Andrew Clennell

I’d probably ask whose place it was, as a journalist.

Senator Cash

Correct, there are just a few basic questions at that hour of the morning. Not only that, how are you ready to go at that hour of the morning, that’s what I want to know. It takes me a bit of time to get ready, good god.

Andrew Clennell

Right, so they had a lot of warning. That’s your point.

Senator Cash

My point is that the ABC are currently investigating themselves. You have already put up a photo which shows circumstances may not quite be what they have been claimed to be. This is taxpayers money you are dealing with. We fund the ABC as taxpayers. Let’s have an open and transparent inquiry. As I said, I would hope the Australian Labor Party in good faith are able to back this inquiry in. So, all Australians can see and hear what really occurred.

Andrew Clennell

Alright also on Sunday Agenda yesterday, I revealed these, I got hold of these confidentiality agreements. Tony Burke is requiring employee groups and unions to sign, to talk to him about his proposed reforms. You actually revealed these to me in an interview recently by the way. What do you make it? What do you make of this?

Senator Cash

Well, for a government that when they’re in opposition used to say – if we’re elected to office, we will be the most transparent government you’ll ever come across. Can I tell you, they are really wanting in the transparency stakes. This is one of the most significant pieces of IR reform this country will ever see. Why wouldn’t you actually bring Australians with you? What have you got to hide by not allowing the business community to have these consultations openly? To have others actually comment on it.

Andrew Clennell

When you were IR Minister, those conditions where you spoke to businesses and unions, how would they operate out?

Senator Cash

Well again, I don’t recall when I was IR Minister ever requiring people to sign a non-disclosure agreement. We always did things up front, because that’s the way you get the transparency. What I would say though is once this legislation is tabled – please Mr. Burke, unlike last time, where you had a quick and dirty inquiry, can we have three or four months to properly go through this legislation? Tony Burke, Albanese, you know Mr. Dreyfus, they talk about transparency. Well, guess what? Let’s be transparent in relation to the Senate inquiry into this legislation and spend a good three or four months going around Australia properly looking at it. Because at the moment, we have nothing but announcements by the media that the Australian people can go off.

Andrew Clennell

Alright, luckily on the show (last occasion), when I asked him the right question. Now Roger Cook, he looks like he’s going to dump these Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Laws.

Senator Cash

Yep, as he should.I think in the first instance, they were bad laws. And the fact that they were able to dump them says this, you can scrap a bad law Andrew, but guess what, if you change the constitution, you cannot alter it – it is already changed. So that’s actually a reason to say no to the Voice. But on top of that, why would you attack Western Australian’s private property rights, people hold their own home and their property dearly. It is like the Australian movie The Castle – please don’t come anywhere near my home. To actually have to pay to get permission if you had a block 1100 square meters or larger – to dig a hole, to plant a tree, to do some land clearing, that is completely totally and utterly unacceptable. What I would say is this now though, the Labor Party federally they’re going to be changing Federal Cultural Heritage Laws. Please give us an exposure draft. Let’s all together look at this legislation to ensure that it doesn’t have the adverse and chaotic impact that the Western Australian laws have had.

Andrew Clennell

Yeah but I mean, that could help Labor and the Voice couldn’t it – that he’s finally taking that action? Alright, well it looks like Darryl Kerrigan won on this occasion. Michaelia Cash, thanks very much for your time this afternoon.

Senator Cash

Great to be with you.