Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs
Leader of the Opposition in Senate
Senator for Western Australia
Youth Jam Radio
2 December 2025
Topics: social media ban
E&OE
Isaac Mulcrone
Today is December 2nd, meaning we are only eight days away from the under 16 social media ban kicking in. We’re only eight days away, in fact, only two days away from Meta beginning to deactivate accounts for under 16s across the country. So things are getting tight. Yet, as we said in the introduction today, the Communications Minister Anika Wells has hinted that Lemon8 and Yope could be added to the social media ban. She said in Adelaide today she’ll have more to say about Lemon8 later this week, so we’ll keep an eye on that and see what comes of that. But I want to talk about the really messy roll out of this social media ban. We’re seeing apps added only weeks before this ban kicks in. We’re seeing rules changed, goal posts moved. It’s not acceptable, in my opinion. And so many young people are questioning, number one, which apps are good to go and which are not? Number two, why this is going ahead, and number three, what the hell is actually happening? I want to chat today to Liberal Senator Michaelia Cash, who is the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate. Senator Cash, good afternoon. Thanks for your time.
Senator Cash
Good afternoon, Isaac. And good afternoon to your listeners.
Isaac Mulcrone
I think so many people, particularly young people, are concerned about this social media ban coming into effect next week. And it’s not just the actual ban itself, but it’s the way that this has been handled over the last few months. We’ve heard today, only today, that a new app could be added to this ban, Lemon8, a Tiktok linked app. It seems that the government is kind of making up this legislation as they go along.
Senator Cash
Absolutely and in fact, Isaac, it is absolutely extraordinary that a year on from the social media age minimum being legislated, the Albanese Government is still scrambling over the details of the social media ban that, as you said, begins on the 10th of December. I mean, there are still some basic questions that the government has just not been clear about with the Australian people. I mean, including whether a platform can effectively compel Australians to use digital identification for age verification, and I mean even the basic question of what platforms are actually going to be included. And disappointingly, on top of that, I think what you’ve seen is a very a lack of a strong public education campaign to actually inform people about what is coming, and that is of a real concern to me. I mean, ultimately, the details really matter, and the Minister and the government should be focused first and foremost on the details, not the headline spin.
Isaac Mulcrone
Yeah, and I read on Youth Jam socials only last week that the eSafety Commission, they confirmed that no further assessment of apps will be done between November 21 and December 10. So no new apps are going to be added to this social media ban. Yet we are about to hear from the Minister, potentially another app being added to this social media ban. I spoke to a psychologist at Monash University a couple of weeks ago, and they said to me that the confusion around which apps are going to be banned and the changing of rules is, and I quote, unfortunately, not helpful at all for young people’s mental health. How do you respond to that when you hear from a psychologist that this is potentially, all these rule changing and additions and stuff, is potentially damaging to a young person’s mental health?
Senator Cash
I think you’re right. It’s not just confusing in terms of what’s in, what’s out, what’s actually happening. It’s also incredibly stressful, because we know that for a lot of young people, I mean social media is where their friendships, their sport groups, etc, and their networks live. So when the rules keep changing at the last minute, and we’re seeing that under this government, and nobody can actually explain to them in very clear basic details, what will actually happen to your account on the 10th of December? I mean, it adds another layer of anxiety, you know, to a generation that that, as we know, and in particular because of COVID, is already doing it tough, you know, on mental health. And I think that the government also needs to be honest that the constant uncertainty, you know, it may well have a mental health impact. And of course, you know, when the government can’t give straight answers, they keep shifting the goal posts. I mean, what they’re doing is you’re piling more and more stress and worry onto teenagers who often are just trying to get through the week.
Isaac Mulcrone
And to add to the confusion, and I know the Coalition has been vocal on their dismay with YouTube being added to this ban, Snapchat has been added to the ban. It’s classified to many as a messaging app. I’m confused as to why that is banned, yet an app like WhatsApp isn’t?
Senator Cash
It’s a very good question. And we’ve been asking the same question. And this is the problem – that the government keeps changing the goal posts. I mean, you have Snapchat’s own AI bot now, it has been telling kids incorrect information about the government’s social media ban and, I mean, and honestly, you know, what would Australians expect, though, given the government’s late education campaign and last minute addition of platforms? I mean, if Snapchat’s AI is confused, imagine Isaac, how a 14 year old is feeling, trying to work out whether they’re about to lose their account, you know, their chats, their group messages, and that’s what happens when you rush something of this scale. The government’s communication has been so poor that even the platforms are now getting it wrong themselves. But as you said, one of the other issues is platforms were still being declared as recently as a week ago, and only now has the government committed to not adding more before next week. I mean that, again, is incredibly confusing and incredibly stressful, not just for young people, but for their parents as well, who also want to properly understand what the ban is and what the consequences of the ban are actually going to be.
Isaac Mulcrone
Well, I revert back to what I was talking about earlier with Lemon8, that Tiktok linked app. The Communications Minister Anika Wells today in Adelaide, said she would have more to say about Lemon8 this week. So potentially, that could be added to this social media ban, along with an app called Yope, which I’ve never heard of, but still, they have committed to not adding more platforms yet.
Senator Cash
So how does that even make sense?
Isaac Mulcrone
That’s right.
Senator Cash
So look, this is very much the issue now. So we’re literally now seeing, and we’re talking about the unintended consequences of Labor’s rollout. And the biggest one is, as you’ve just said, that kids will now simply migrate to other platforms. They’re not going to just log off and disappear from social media. They’ll look for work arounds, and you’re now seeing that. Yope, Lemon8, they are the ones topping the charts right now, you know. And what happens? You know, you push teenagers off the big mainstream platforms where at least parents, schools and police had some visibility, you are potentially now driving them to new or less regulated apps where the risks could be actually higher. I mean, you would have thought that good policy and good government thinks about this, and if you don’t what you actually risk doing. And this is a huge problem, you risk making kids less safe online, not more safe. So the government again, uncertainty, delay, you know, no clarity, no clear answers, a messy process. You don’t have a clear plan, and we are calling on the government to answer what should have been Isaac, quite basic questions.
Isaac Mulcrone
Yeah, absolutely. I want to ask you, though, if the Coalition knew what was to come with the rollout of this social media ban, if they knew that YouTube would be added, if they knew about the inconsistencies the late rollout of certain apps, would you have voted for it?
Senator Cash
Well, let’s be very clear, the legislation that we voted for did not contain what you’ve just said. So we were always very upfront. We support the goal of keeping our kids safe online. And when I talk to parents, I mean absolutely, parents are worried about what social media is doing their kids. So the principle of protecting young people online is right, but the way the Albanese Government is handling this rollout is an absolute mess. So I think we all understand the damage social media can do to a young people’s mental health, you know, their body image and their safety. But what we don’t support is a rollout that is rushed and is confused. Now, if you really wanted this to work: a) you would have already done your homework as a government, but what they can do is this, you need clear rules, and you need to settle them now. You know, the list of platforms and the obligations should have been locked in months ago, Isaac, not finalised days before the start date. You need privacy-respecting age verification that actually works. I mean, you don’t force Australians into digital ID by stealth. You test the technology properly. You clearly explain to these young people what’s going to happen to their data. But you also need a serious education campaign, not a last minute media blitz and a whole lot of excuses from the government. You need a proper national effort so parents, schools and young people know what’s coming. They know what their rights are. They know what their responsibilities are. I mean, as a member of the Coalition, we want this to succeed. Why? Because we want to ensure kids are made safer online. What we don’t want is it to fail because Labor treated it as a headline instead of a serious, complicated reform. And I have a message to young people here, you’re not the problem. We know social media is part of how you connect with friends, with sport, with music. Nobody is pretending it doesn’t matter. The problem, however, Isaac is the big tech companies that they put profit and engagement ahead of a young person’s well being, and now what you have is a government that hasn’t done the hard planning to bring young people and their parents, quite frankly, along on such a big change. And I would say to young people, you deserve rules that genuinely keep you safer online and they respect your rights and your privacy. And to poor parents, I mean, you were being left to pick up the pieces of a rushed rollout. I mean, parents weren’t given clear information early enough Isaac, and now they’re trying to help their that their kids navigate something that unfortunately and disappointingly, even the government can’t explain properly. So you know, as a member of the Coalition, I am going to keep pushing for a system that actually works, a system with clear rules, proper safeguards and a real education effort. Instead of the chaos and confusion that we’re currently seeing under Labor.
Isaac Mulcrone
There is a fair lack of confusion, as you say. And I’ve been chatting to my family, my friends, to young people, but also to those above the age of 16. And a fair number of people, as you’ve alluded to, are concerned about digital ID. Now the prime minister told Nova that you will not be forced to give your your passport, your driver’s license, whatever it may be to these platforms. But I have been looking into this, and as have many others, when it comes to verifying who you are, you’ve got an option of taking a selfie, which is the standard, I guess, these days. But if that doesn’t work, that doesn’t prove that you’re, for example, an 18 year old person, you then have to put in a driver’s license or a passport in order to use the social media platforms. So I guess the question I have for you is, has the government been telling the truth about digital ID?
Senator Cash
Well, that’s a very good question, because currently we don’t have any clarity on age verifications. Australians still don’t know what age checks will look like. They don’t know how they’re going to work. Bearing in mind Isaac that we are talking about something – today is what the second of December?
Isaac Mulcrone
Yeah, eight days away.
Senator Cash
This starts on the 10th of December, we have no clear answer on whether people will, as you’ve said, effectively, be pushed into digital ID. So there are a lot of, I would say, incredibly concerning questions that the Albanese government still can’t give a straight answer on. And quite frankly, they’re basic questions, and if they can’t explain them, how can anybody, let alone the young people and the parents who are directly affected by this, trust them to actually deliver it?
Isaac Mulcrone
Yeah, absolutely. There’s a fair few questions that I’ve got, and we are calling on the Communications Minister, Anika Wells, to come on the show. It has been promised. We’re still waiting for that to happen, so we hope that Anika Wells will come and talk to us at some point.
Senator Cash
Not just talk to you. How about she actually explains it to you, Isaac? You ask questions and exactly, and you just say, I’m going to ask you, Anika, a number of questions that my listeners are asking me on a daily basis, simple questions that they need answers to before Wednesday the 10th of December, and I would expect that you are able to actually answer them. But let’s face it, we’re not going to hold our breath.
Isaac Mulcrone
No, no, we’re not.
Senator Cash
Which is really disappointing, though, because, as you said, you go back to, you know, unintended consequences, the complete mess, the interview you have with a psychologist, the impact on the mental health, the fact that this is an incredibly complex policy, but you know, you know, we’ve been accused of, you know, are you scaremongering about digital ID? Well, hey, hold on. The concern is about clarity and safeguards. And Australians do deserve to know. And the minister should answer these questions. You know, what proof will be required? Who holds the data? How can the data be used? How can the data not be used? And the problem we have is this, the government has not ruled out some form of digital identity being used by platforms. And I would say to the government, this isn’t about scaremongering. This is about basic transparency. I mean, if age verification ends up meaning people are pushed into some form of digital ID, Australians are entitled to know that upfront, and they need to see the safeguards. And again, at the moment, you have a government that cannot give a straight answer. And you know, when you can’t explain your own system and your own policy, Australians are right to be concerned.
Isaac Mulcrone
And it’s very much a case of telling media one thing and telling politicians and the public another. They told Nova that digital ID will not be legally required to use these platforms, but if you can’t get a selfie through these apps and verify yourself, you haven’t got much of a choice. But Michaelia Cash, always a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks for your time.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you, Isaac, and thanks for having me on.
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