Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Senator for Western Australia
TRANSCRIPT
6PR Perth Radio
TOPICS: Cost of Living, Tax Cuts, Mental Health Funding, Fuel Excise, Working from Home, Debt and Tariffs
8 April 2025
E&OE
Ollie Peterson
Senator Cash, good afternoon.
Senator Cash
Good afternoon, Ollie. Good afternoon, Patrick. Good afternoon to WA.
Ollie Peterson
Good afternoon, Patrick Gorman.
Patrick Gorman
Good afternoon, Ollie. Good afternoon to your listeners. Good afternoon to Senator Cash, and good afternoon to anyone who’s listening around the world online.
Ollie Peterson
Well, I just saw you on the television screens at Optus Stadium. Were you, you know, practising for the double header this weekend, Patrick?
Patrick Gorman
I wasn’t, nor was I training up for my important role as an assistant coach of Auskick. What I was there for was for the Australian of the Year lunch with Neale Daniher, which was truly inspiring. He had a message of, sort of everyone saying, don’t wait, go and grab, do that thing that you want to do. You never know what tomorrow will bring. And he was just encouraging people to kind of go and do the things that make them happy or proud to be an Australian. It was an incredible conversation between Neale and his daughter, Bec, and it was a real honour to be there.
Ollie Peterson
Yeah, we had Bec in the studios yesterday. Absolutely outstanding and inspiring. And, you know, putting politics to one side, of course, Senator Cash, what a very worthy Australian of the Year.
Senator Cash Oh, what a great Australian. And I have to say, my husband and I were watching the news on replay last night, and Neale came on, and Richard just turned to me and said, “Wow, what a great Australian.” This man just literally inspires you just by looking at him. So no, look, great Australian, and great to know that he had the luncheon today.
Ollie Peterson
So we’ve got the first leaders’ debate tonight. Of course, the Prime Minister goes head to head with the Opposition Leader Peter Dutton, then both your leaders are going to be in Perth later this week. Are you feeling up and about, Patrick?
Patrick Gorman
I am, yeah. I’m feeling like, I, like Senator Cash, there are a lot of things we disagree on, but I think we both love elections. We both love getting out there, talking to people, explaining our plan. It will be great to have the Prime Minister in Western Australia to launch Labor’s campaign. Our national launch will be here in the West. I think that sends a great message to not just my constituents, but to our entire state, and also reminds the rest of the country how important WA is, how important it is for our economy, how important it is for our Indian Ocean neighbours. It’ll be a great weekend. I’m looking forward to it.
Ollie Peterson
In this spirit of bipartisanship, do you see the result, Senator Cash, being decided out of WA for whoever’s going to win the election in a matter of weeks?
Senator Cash
I think WA is going to play an incredibly important role in the election. But I think, as I said last week, when Anthony Albanese is here launching his campaign, he might explain to Western Australians the series of actions that should deeply concern our state. Betraying our farmers by ending the live sheep export trade purely on ideological opposition to it. Betraying our communities in the South West by riding roughshod over them, announcing the massive offshore wind farm that the community is totally opposed to. Explain why they haven’t made a decision on the extension of the North West Shelf project. I mean, committing to bring back Labor’s toxic, nature-positive, mining-negative laws. WA industry, they’ve been clear, [these are] disastrous for our state. It will push up housing and energy costs here in WA, the last thing we need. Also explain why Mr Albanese and Labor reinstated funding for the activist Environmental Defenders Office, which has done nothing more and nothing less than stymie existing projects and stop new endeavours from taking off. So Mr Albanese has got a bit of explaining to do when he touches down in our great state.
Ollie Peterson
Do you reckon there’ll be a couple of those questions answered, Patrick, over the weekend and through the launch?
Patrick Gorman
What I know we’ll see at the launch is more policy that will help working Western Australians, just like what we did in our budget, where we said 1.3 million Western Australians will get two more tax cuts. And then, within 48 hours, Peter Dutton said, “I want to rip them away.” And when it comes to ripping away a fair tax deal for Western Australians, Peter Dutton’s got form. We know this was the guy who sat around Cabinet in 2018 opposing the plan to give WA a fair share of the GST. He tries to cover that up now. He pretends that it didn’t happen, even though we know it’s true, because Malcolm Turnbull wrote about it in his book. What he’s doing now is saying to every single taxpayer in Western Australia that he’s going to wind back the tax changes that we brought in just last month. I mean, that’s a pretty sharp contrast for me. You’ll see more sharp contrast with our launch, and you’ll see a real government with real plans to help Western Australians on practical things, like tax cuts, making Medicare cheaper, and the policy we announced today around expanding our Medicare mental health services.
Ollie Peterson
So how’s that going to work?
Senator Cash
Well, Ollie, can I just jump in here? Can I just respond to that? Seventy cents a day in 15 months’ time, quite frankly, is just a cruel hoax. What we’re offering people is cost of living relief because of the disaster the Albanese government has created, immediately, by cutting the cost of fuel. You cut the fuel tax, you halve the fuel excise, 25 cents a litre is what you will save in Western Australia. Why do we need that? Because we are a big state. We drive cars. We often have one car per person in a family. And, you know, people think nothing of jumping in their car, driving down to Bunbury, driving up to Yanchep. We commute huge distances every day. What do they need? Well, it’s what we’re hearing on the doors, tax relief at the bowser flowing immediately to them on the election of a Dutton government. And as I said, 25 cents per litre off the fuel excise when you’re filling up your car versus, this is what’s on offer: 70 cents a day in 15 months’ time.
Ollie Peterson
It’s question time with what we’re calling Pat-Cash: Patrick Gorman, Michaelia Cash. If you’ve got a question for them, 133 882.
Patrick, back to you on this Medicare mental health funding announcement today. How does it work?
Patrick Gorman
Well, Senator Cash just referred to people driving down to Bunbury. I’m actually driving down to Bunbury at the moment. I’ve pulled over at the servo in Pinjarra so I can have this conversation.
Senator Cash
Why don’t you ask the people down there if they want 25 cents off per litre? Go ask them, see what they say.
Patrick Gorman
What I was just saying to your listeners, Ollie, was that I’m heading down to Bunbury to talk about our plan to expand mental health into Medicare by creating 31 new Medicare mental health centres, 58 new and upgraded headspace services. The headspace service in my electorate has been fantastic, but I know that we need more of these services. And 20 new youth specialist care centres for young people with complex mental health needs. We’re backing all of that up with extra training for another 1,200 mental health professionals, because what we know is there are gaps in our mental health care, particularly for young people, particularly in our regions. That’s why we want to make sure we’re building more mental health services. And I’m really looking forward to going down with Tabitha Dowding, who’s Labor’s candidate for Forrest, and having a chat about this tomorrow.
Ollie Peterson
Michael Carr-Gregg, who’s one of our country’s leading psychologists, had this to say about your announcement today.
Michael Carr-Gregg (recording)
I can’t see how they will address the problem of staffing of these headspace centres, because we don’t have enough psychologists. This was the government that did, in fact, dump the COVID-era doubling of Medicare sessions. I’d like to see that restored first.
Ollie Peterson
Was that part of the consideration, Patrick, to restore the doubling of those sessions from 10 to 20? And as he asks, where do you get the staff from?
Patrick Gorman
Well, as many of your listeners who follow this closely would know, that doubling of those sessions was a COVID-era measure that even the budgets that Michaelia and her colleagues handed down noted would go back to those 10 sessions. What we’ve done is put in more training places. In this package that we announced today, 1,200 training places for mental health professionals and peer workers. We do need to have a range of different services, including psychologists, but we’ve got to train people. But I don’t want to say we’re not going to have the services that young people need and wait six to seven years for that training to happen. We can expand services now with the resources we have. I’ve been to the Osborne Park headspace service. It’s fantastic. I’ve seen the young people they’ve helped. I’ve heard from those young people about how it’s made a difference in them being able to get back to focusing on their job or their study. I want to make sure more people can access those services, and do it in a bulk-billed way through Medicare. That’s what we’ve announced today.
Ollie Peterson
Senator Cash, do you think more young people will be able to access those services? Do you plan to match Labor’s pledge?
Senator Cash
We’ve already committed to investing an additional $900 million to supporting mental health. That directly includes half a billion dollars for the increase in the number of mental health sessions from 10 to 20. And I have to say, the feedback that I have got ever since the Albanese government ruled out restoring them is that this is one of the things that is directly affecting people’s ability to get the help they need. It was Labor who cut the number of subsidised sessions from 20 down to 10. I think it is really sad that they have ruled out restoring them. What that has meant, and this is the actual on-the-ground effect, Ollie, is that support has been ripped away from around 372,000 vulnerable Australians with complex or chronic mental health conditions. I think it is a shame that they also abolished the National Mental Health Commission. I do recall the commentary when you actually had to have the resignation of one of the key people because they couldn’t get a meeting, it was the head of Mental Health Australia, resigned in despair because he couldn’t even get a meeting with the Prime Minister. So I think this is obviously fundamental, in particular for young people. And as I said, we’ve committed to investing an additional $900 million. That includes increasing the number of subsidised mental health sessions back to 20, boosting the headspace network, that is just a fantastic network, co-designed with young people, establishing support for young Australians with complex conditions in 40 regions around the country, and establishing a National Institute for Youth Mental Health. So look, it is an area that I believe has been neglected by Labor, but it is something that we are absolutely committed to: increasing mental health investment.
Ollie Peterson
Patrick, are we heading towards a recession? I heard the Opposition Leader today mention that Jim Chalmers is talking about a 50-point reduction in interest rates, which Peter Dutton says means he obviously sees a recession coming for our economy. Do you?
Patrick Gorman
Well, I don’t want to talk down the Australian economy. What I want to do is be honest with people about the huge economic headwinds we are seeing, in large part driven by the tariffs that have been placed on a range of goods and services by a number of our trading partners. What I want to do is remind people that what we seek to do every day is strengthen the Australian economy and make sure that we have more secure Australian jobs. That was Labor’s approach during the global financial crisis, where we prioritised the jobs of Australians in the face of huge economic headwinds. We’ll always look for ways to protect jobs and to protect the livelihoods of Australians. We’re a big trading nation, and Western Australians really get that, we see it every day. We’ve got so many people who work in trade-exposed industries. But we can also take a lot of it into our own hands. We can choose the way we respond. I think we’ve made the right choice in not going to reciprocal tariffs, because Australia doesn’t put tariffs on US goods. What we’ll also do is be really open with the Australian people. We put out yesterday the pre-election economic and fiscal outlook that confirmed a range of the expected growth figures. But it also said very clearly that there is turmoil, there is volatility, coming out of these tariffs. We’ll continue to stand up for Australia’s interests, continue to stand up for Australia’s industries, and continue to stand up for Australian jobs, because that’s what we were elected to do, and we’ve done it every day since we were elected.
Ollie Peterson
Senator Cash, with Donald Trump’s tariffs and the big changes to the global economy in the last 48 hours, does that risk any chances you might have, if you were to win the election, of being better managers of the economy?
Senator Cash
Well, I think in the face of the uncertainty, what it does do is heighten the importance of a steady hand and strong economic management. And I would say on that point, the choice is clear. I mean, this is a Coalition that has a strong track record of shepherding Australia through turbulent economic times. You just need, Ollie, to look back to John Howard and Peter Costello. They shepherded Australia, it’s a fact, through the Asian Financial Crisis, the dot-com bubble. But also, and this is really important, because economists across Australia have said this today, it was John Howard and Peter Costello that rebuilt the budget so that Australia could respond to the Global Financial Crisis. I was part of the government that, of course, balanced the budget before COVID. We steered Australia through the pandemic. If you recall back, we secured Australian jobs and businesses, and in fact, we emerged from the pandemic in a world-leading position. What we face now, though, is that in three short years, Labor has trashed the economy. And the biggest issue now is they’ve left us unprepared for the shock that is now coming. Now, Patrick mentioned PEFO, the Pre-Election Fiscal Outlook, which was released by Treasury and Finance. It confirmed the concerns held by the Coalition. And this was confirmed yesterday: four years of deficits now totalling $179.5 billion; ten years of higher taxes, with the tax-to-GDP cap to be breached, that’s under Labor. But I think this is the really scary statistic for people in terms of the situation we now find ourselves in after three years of Labor, debt set to soar to $1.2 trillion. So you now have a government that in three years hasn’t just not prepared our economy in the face of this uncertainty. What it’s done now is actually ensure that living standards, standards, have collapsed. So for me, in the face of global uncertainty and recent volatility on the financial markets, I think this highlights more than anything that strong economic management is now more important than ever. And that is certainly something that the Coalition, in former iterations, whether it’s Howard and Costello or whether it’s the nine years of our government, we certainly have a strong track record of shepherding Australia through turbulent economic times to actually stand on.
Ollie Peterson
That debt figure, Patrick, is something which is not widely talked about, but shouldn’t we be worried about it?
Patrick Gorman
Well, what your listeners know, Ollie, is that over the last two years we’ve delivered two surpluses. The last government that Senator Cash just referred to, and was in for nine years, didn’t deliver a single surplus. And when they tried to get to a surplus, they did quite radical things, like trying to end bulk billing, $50 billion of cuts to hospitals, policies that Australians do not want to go back to. What we have done is get the budget back to a much more manageable position. We’ve reduced the amount of debt that was left by the Morrison–Dutton government by some $200 billion based on the projections they gave us at the last election. And we’ve really unashamedly said that our focus is on making sure that Australians can earn more and keep more of what they earn. That’s why we’re backing tax cuts. That’s why we want to make sure we have more people in jobs. We’ve got some of the lowest unemployment in this country that we’ve had in 50 years. And that’s not by accident. It’s because we’ve worked really hard, really carefully, to make sure that Australians who want a job can find a job and keep a job, and, like I said, earn more and keep more of what they earn. It’ll be Australian jobs that are our focus as we deal with the volatility we see on international markets. It’ll be our priority as we work through our budget every single time. And you’ve seen in this election campaign again, Australian jobs are our priority, making sure they’re good jobs. That’s why we’ve stood up to say that where Mr Dutton and others have put forward these ideas of axing public servants and ending work from home for millions of Australians, we’ve stood up and said: No. Let’s make sure that people can have good quality jobs where them and their employers can treat each other with respect and come to mutually beneficial arrangements, such as maybe a day here or there working from home, rather than this ruling with an iron fist that, up until yesterday, Peter Dutton wanted to do when it came to a national ban on work from home.
Ollie Peterson
Yeah, the clock’s about to beat us, but Senator Cash, on that point: the about-face on working from home and the public service cuts. How did the Liberal Party get it so wrong with that announcement, then have to change your mind halfway through the campaign?
Senator Cash
Can I just first respond to Patrick’s rhetoric? Because despite what Patrick just said, what he can’t explain away is this: Anthony Albanese said life would be cheaper under Labor. He said you’d be better off. That’s what he said three years ago, prior to the last election. The reality three years on, Ollie, is this: the biggest fall in living standards in the developed world. Small business insolvencies are at a record high. Inflation is higher. Interest rates are up sharply. Power bills, fuel, food, insurance costs, you name it, they are all higher. Housing is unaffordable. Our country is less safe. And Patrick talks about the economy. Patrick needs to explain, then, what was released yesterday by Treasury, which confirmed, as I said, Ollie, the concerns held by the Coalition. Labor’s increased public spending, that is a fact. And a baked-in deficit has now put Australia, and that’s the Commonwealth, in a weakened position to support Australians through the coming economic crisis. Four years of deficits: $179.5 billion. Ten years of higher taxes, with the tax-to-GDP cap to be breached. And debt, as I said, the number is an astronomical figure, debt is now set to soar to $1.2 trillion if Labor are re-elected. And that’s the position that Labor can’t explain. You said life would be better off. It’s not. But what’s worse now is that after three years of the trashing of the economy, Labor hasn’t prepared our economy, as I said, for the global uncertainty and the recent volatility. And that is why I would argue to your listeners: look at Howard and Costello. Look at the previous nine years of a Coalition government. We actually do, despite everything Labor says, and as I’ve said, judge them by their actions, the statistics, not what they say. We have a strong track record of shepherding Australia through turbulent economic times. And let’s face it, in the face of uncertainty, the choice Australians have to make on May the third, it is even more acute, and it heightens the importance of a steady hand and strong economic management.
Ollie Peterson
Senator Cash, just on that point though, about changing your mind, the party’s changed its mind on working from home. Is that because you’re bleeding votes? Did the polls tell you you had to do it?
Senator Cash
Yeah, no, look, I have to say, we were subjected to the mother of all scare campaigns by Labor. I give Anthony Albanese credit, the mother of all scare campaigns. The feedback our candidates were getting on the doors was, when they spoke to people, people actually said, “But Labor have told us it applies to me, I’m in the private sector. Why would you do that?” That was never our policy, but I accept the scare campaign worked. But also, in taking on board the feedback, and it was clear feedback, we’ve listened. We understand, absolutely, that flexible work, including working from home, is kind of getting the best out of any workforce. And we’ve made it clear, we made a mistake. We’ve listened to the feedback, and yes, we have changed our policy. And what I’d say to the Australian people is, that’s actually what you want out of your leader: someone who is prepared to say to you, “I have listened. I made a mistake. And yes, we’ve taken on board the feedback.”
Ollie Peterson
Patrick, Michaelia, we are out of time. We’ll do it all again next week. That’s Pat-Cash with Question Time at half past four.
ENDS
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