Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Attorney-General
Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Senator for Western Australia
Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price
Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians
Shadow Minister for Government Efficiency
Senator for the Northern Territory
Mr Ben Small
Liberal Candidate for Forrest
TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW: Joint Doorstop in Pelican Point, WA
TOPICS: Event in Bunbury today; Anthony Albanese’s divisive Voice referendum and racially-driven politics; Protesters trying to limit freedom of movement; Indigenous traditional culture; Coalition policy for Indigenous affairs
11 April 2025
Mr Ben Small
Good afternoon and I can’t say how proud I am to have welcomed Senators Price and Cash here to Bunbury today. Mixing with 100 local people, we saw a variety of views debated respectfully and in a tone with which all Australians can be proud. Ultimately we shared our vision to get Australia back on track and importantly discussed local issues like scrapping the Geograph Bay wind farm, giving all Australians immediate cost of living relief with a 25 cent cut to fuel tax and importantly to back our farmers in by committing to keep the sheep. Today was an important part of our democracy in action. It was so important for freedom of movement and freedom of expression in this country. That Australians could come together and respectfully share a diversity of views. And that’s what we saw here, and that’s why it was so important that today went ahead.
Senator Michaelia Cash
Do you have any questions? We’ll go straight to questions for you if that’s easier.
Question
So what’s your understanding of why dozens of Noongar people came down to protest today?
Mr Ben Small
Ultimately, earlier this week I received an email that advised that one Australian asserted a veto right over the freedom of movement of another Australian in this country. Now that Australian happens to be an elected representative in the federal parliament and a proud Indigenous woman in Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price. I thought, and indeed I think many Australians thought, that that was an outrage because it attacked and undermined the very freedoms with which our democratic country has been built.
Question
So do you understand though why they were protesting and what’s your understanding of the issues that they were taking with the presence of you?
Mr Ben Small
Look, seven in ten South West locals voted no to Anthony Albanese’s risky and divisive voice referendum. Just today we heard views where Australians were united here in the South West to see an end to racism, to ensure that opportunities abound for all Australians regardless of their cultural and racial heritage. And I think that’s what today was so important for. Because regardless of attempts by certain activists to divide our country with racially-charged politics, we as South West locals came together to share our views respectfully. Not everyone will agree with our views, but that is, of course, their right in a country that embraces freedoms like we do.
Question
A number of Indigenous people found the voice, the failure of the voice referendum to pass quite traumatic, given some of the discussions that were had around it. Do you give any credence to the fact that they find it being brought up again, as you did in your post promoting this event, somewhat re-traumatising?
Mr Ben Small
We hadn’t seen racially divisive politics in this country on a scale like we did until Anthony Albanese on election night in 2022 committed to the voice referendum. And I think that was a terrible shame for progress in this country in affording all Australians the opportunities with which they deserve. So ultimately the accountability for that decision lies at the feet of the Prime Minister. The overwhelming majority of Australians said no to introducing racially divisive politics into this country. And that is why we’ve come together today, to share our views respectfully, to agree to disagree in some cases. But that’s an important part of our democracy here in Australia.
Question
The referendum was over a year ago though, so why did you bring it up again in the promotion of this event?
Mr Ben Small
7 in 10 South West locals voted no to the introduction of divisive racially based politics here in this country. Senator Nampijinpa Price was a fierce advocate in standing up for Australia and standing up for our freedoms and ultimately for backing unity in this Country. Unity of opportunity for all Australians. So frankly I’m very proud to have had Senator Price along with Senator Cash stand with me this week. and say no to racially divisive politics in the South West, just as they fought very hard to deliver a resounding no to racially-divisive politics, in this country at all.
Question
Was everyone allowed to attend this event because some people told us that they tried to buy a ticket and it was directed to Liberal Party members only, so how did that work?
Mr Ben Small
Today’s event attracted a small cover charge to cover the costs of the venue and was advertised publicly. So this was an open invitation to the South West community to come along to share their views with two very senior Coalition members and of course myself as the local Liberal candidate. So I understand that we’ve reached capacity because this was an event which attracted interest because people are genuinely interested in our plans to get Australia back on track and to have the opportunity with two senior Coalition frontbenchers here today was of course very appealing to South West locals.
Question
If it was a public event and something you wanted all locals to take part in, why didn’t you allow the media to come in for the duration to cover it so that other people who weren’t here could also take part of what you were talking about?
Mr Ben Small
Well of course the media were invited at the start of the event and we’re here having a press conference now. So I’m happy to take those questions and to discuss them. And of course you were at the community hall in Busselton last night where I answered in unequivocal terms what my plans for the South West are. And I think it’s a matter for the media now to pursue those candidates who are standing in this seat at this election and will not level with South West locals about where they stand on issues like the Geograph Bay wind farm. On issues like backing our farmers with take the sheep and of course importantly who they will back to be the next Prime Minister of Australia. If anyone votes for me, Ben Small, your Liberal candidate in this election, they know that I will back Peter Dutton to be the Prime Minister that forms government in this country and gets us back on track. I think each of the other candidates owes the people of the South West the same honesty, integrity and transparency.
Question
And that community event yesterday that we both attended, I was able to stay and film for the duration of the meeting, so why not today?
Mr Ben Small
Ultimately, we found that giving South West locals a closed-room environment to freely share their views without any of the pressure that goes with public life to be an important way of exchanging those views openly and freely. And I think it’s important also that we, as the ones who are putting ourselves forward for public life, take a different approach. And that’s why we’re standing here answering questions from the media now.
Question
Can I ask Senator Price a question?
Mr Ben Small
Absolutely.
Question
I wasn’t in here but I understand there was quite a moving exchange between you and an Aboriginal woman who talked about the racism that she has felt since the [inaudible]. Are you in a position to tell us what you said to her and what you’d say to others who you have since been invovlved [inaudible]?
Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price
Absolutely, and I was very grateful for that young Indigenous mum in the room today to express her views. We have some very similar backgrounds. I’ve been, in the past, a single mother of three sons who has overcome adversity. She herself is a mum in a same position, and so we have some commonalities. Her concerns are around certainly her children experiencing racism. And again, I think one of the worst things that the Albanese government has done to Australia is put a racially divisive proposal before us. You know, he could have taken a page out of Morgan Freeman’s book – how do you overcome racism? Stop talking about it. But he tried to enforce it upon us in our country. And this is the result of that. No child in this country, and this is what I said, no child in this country should have to feel ashamed of who they. And unfortunately this is the case, not just with Indigenous children are they confronted with racism as has happened to this mother, but I know there are many children in this country who feel, and there’s young kids who are of white Australian background in this country who they shouldn’t be proud to call themselves Australian, if there’s something wrong with the colour of their skin. You know, there are young migrant children in this country who feel like, well, where do we fit in? Anthony Albanese has failed to unify our country. And what I said to that young mother was that, tell her children they are important. We have to start respecting one another as individuals in our own right. Yes, we should be able to agree to disagree, but respectfully in Australia. Adults have got a role to play in this country, and when you get far left activists who want nothing more than to be destructive, you are going to get far right, who are going to, when there’s action, there is reaction to that action, and so that is what we’re dealing with, particularly as a result of this, the referendum that we’ve had to endure in Australia, we shouldn’t have to deal with either side, and we in the middle should be calling out. either side. But unfortunately and you guys as media have a lot of responsibility to play in this area as well in terms of enabling one side or one view to be more important or to be heard as more important as another. I personally have had experience as an Indigenous woman in my own right that I should think a certain way because I am Indigenous, instead of being respected as an individual in my own right. It’s been put to me from media in the past. Isn’t it strange that you’re a conservative and an Indigenous woman? Why is that? Why should that be strange? Why should my views that I want Indigenous children to not have to be exposed to domestic and family violence at the rates that we do or sexual abuse at the rate that we do in this country, why should that be a controversial idea in Australia in 2025? So everybody has a responsibility in terms of the issues that we are confronted with, especially when it comes to Indigenous affairs. And we shouldn’t be teaching our children that if you’re indigenous and you’re a child in this country you’re a victim without agency to stand on your own two feet and that if you’re not that you’re somehow either a coloniser or you’re a second-rate citizen because you come from a migrant family. We’re all Australians first and foremost and we should all be treated with this amount of respect. And these are the messages that I’m always putting forward regardless of what the activist class or some of the media try to portray, and this is what I wanted to make very clear to this mother today – is that her beautiful children should absolutely expect to be respected, expect, understand their own value and self-worth. And I think, her being their mother, they are certainly going to be able to grow up and understand that as well. So I was very grateful. There might have been a ruckus outside in terms of, again, the activist class, but there were Indigenous people in this room today. There was another young Indigenous woman who said I avoided going through the front doors because I know some of those people, but I, like many others that she knows, agree with the way you’re taking an approach to Indigenous affairs and that we are often portrayed as a homogenous group in this country. I mean, let’s face it, on one hand, there are those that say, I don’t speak on behalf of them. Fair enough, I’m not. But I am an elected member of parliament, so I represent Australians in Parliament house. But don’t tell me on one hand I don’t respect you but that I’m supposed to be a sellout. What is it? It’s one or the other. It can’t be both. But this is the view. Indigenous Australia, and those as part of the activist class, my message to you is let’s start having respectful debate for one another instead of trying to shout each other down and over the top of one another. Many Indigenous Australians in this country know what it’s like if you have a differing opinion to speak out with that opinion and be an individual in your own right. You can be held down, you can be threatened with violence. That has to stop and that is why I won’t back down and I won’ t be restricted of moving around this country because I know as my lived experience as an Indigenous woman in this country and under traditional culture I am a second-rate citizen and I don’t have the same rights as Indigenous men. And that is my lived experience as an Aboriginal woman, and I won’t back down from highlighting these elements of a culture that I belong to, and I won’t let anybody who hasn’t lived there tell me otherwise. We’re in Australia, we haven’t had our feminist movement as Indigenous women in this country. It’s probably high time we did, and I’m happy to kick that off.
Question
If you talk about having like an open conversation why you didn’t reach out to the people out there and the local Indigenous people before you came and meet with them outside and have a bit of a discussion with them about your differences?
Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price
Because of the aggression. Again, I’m an Indigenous woman who’s grown up with violence in my community and my extended family. I’ve been a survivor of domestic violence myself. I have been before crowds where there’s potential for violence and aggression and threatening behaviour. Why should I, as a woman, have to step out into a crowd where I know there’s even aggressive men? Why should do that? Would a white woman in this country be expected to go out in front of an aggressive crowd and put themselves potentially in danger? You know, and there’s a growing problem in the country more broadly that they’re, you know, for elected parliamentarians of all backgrounds are becoming under more threatening behaviour. We have to assess the threat before we go into a place. This is how it is. I’m not going to place myself in danger. If individuals want to have a conversation with me, I’ve always said my door is open and many Indigenous Australians who have a differing viewpoint, like the young mother who was here today, who was a yes voter, had a differing viewpoint, she was here. But I’m not going to, first and foremost, see on social media that people want to punch me or threaten me or be violent toward me and then have to go out and say, “here I am, let’s have a decent conversation.” If they’re not going display that level of mutual respect, I’m not going to put my safety at risk for anybod. But if people want to have a respectful conversation debate, I’m all for that but I suspect that’s not what they were seeking today and this is why I’ve had to avoid other things that I’ve that I had to go to as well.
Question
Their opposition to you coming here today was the protocol that I think Ben, who invited you, an elder wasn’t contacted first, you know, you’re stepping on their country. So I’m just, what’s your response to that?
Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price
Do you go and ask, do you go through protocol everywhere you go in Australia?
Question
It’s Aboriginal protocol.
Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price
Oh okay sorry – two double standards. I have to be told what to do and controlled by other Aboriginal people. Is that what you’re suggesting? Because this is a democratic issue. I mean, this is democratic country, right? This is a democratic country. Why should my movements be restricted? In 2025, just because I’m an Aboriginal woman? I’m sorry, but should I be married off in a forced arranged marriage because that’s Aboriginal culture…
Question
That’s not what I’m saying…
Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price
No, no, no no, let’s be real here. We’re talking about – I’m supposed to live by Aboriginal culture because I’m Aboriginal. I don’t have the freedom of choice in this country to choose what elements of culture that I want to adopt in my life. I have to be told by others how to live my life. This is the problem that Indigenous people are faced with right around this country. The expectation is that we have to respect elders. We might not even know them, but we have to respect them because we’re told that’s what culture dictates to you. Okay – we don’t burn women at the stake anymore. We’ve changed in terms of Western culture, in terms how we do things. So for Indigenous Australians, the expectation that we have to conform to cultural norms is ridiculous. It’s the reason why my mother said she did not want to be married off at the age of 13 to an older man 30 years older than herself. It’s reason why I fight every day for the rights of girls in those circumstances. This is the very reason why I don’t support traditional cultural payback, because there are those that would suggest that I should get a spear in the leg, because I’m not following cultural protocol. Are we going to get behind, outdated, draconian, traditional customary laws and treat one group of Australians because of our racial heritage in a way that we’re supposed to abide by them? I don’t think so.
Question
So then you don’t think we should respect our elders?
Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price
I don’t know who these elders are. I know elders in my community who have raped children. I’m not going to respect them. I expect that I would respect people mutually and not because of their own appointed status, basically. Again, I’m an Australian. If I choose to want to follow parts of traditional culture, that is my choice. But if I don’t want to, that is also my choice.
Question
You mentioned before that you think media should tell both sides, which I completely agree with. For that reason, would you have liked to see media allowed to stay for the duration of the event? I appreciate you doing the doorstop now, but as we know, press is often a different thing from actually seeing politicians engage with the public.
Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price
Look, you had your opportunity as the media to be in the room. We gave the opportunity to those in the room to be able to, as Ben said, speak freely and have an open conversation about issues that they wanted you to discuss. That’s ultimately what it was all about, and you’ve got your opportunity. You’re here, you’re asking the questions that you want to ask. So that’s how the cookie’s crumbled.
Question
I have a question about policy, and I was looking forward to your indigenous portfolio of policies. Will Indigenous women’s rights will be a part of that?
Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price
Oh look, women’s indigenous rights are going to be a huge part of policy going forward. I think we can recognise that when a land council can appoint or reappoint, as they have done recently, an individual as a Chair who has a rap sheet as long as my arm, who has committed atrocious domestic violence, perpetrated by, against vulnerable, you know, a vulnerable person, that they’re going to appointed to Chair a very powerful entity such as a land council, then I am absolutely of the view that there will be a reset so that we aren’t putting people like this in positions of power in the Indigenous affairs space. I mean, let’s face it, 30 years – over the last three decades, closing the gap, none of it is working. We have to take a serious look at why this is the case. We have look at who our elders are because the Chairperson with the rap sheet is considered an elder. So do we hold these people in high regard who have committed atrocities, you know, I was invited over to an event by VACCHO, the individual that held the smoking ceremony, welcoming smoking ceremony was somebody who said that I deserved a bullet and should be shot. If these are the sorts of individuals we’re holding in high regard in the Indigenous affairs space, yes, there will be a reset, so the expectations will be lifted, the standard will be lift on my watch, on a Peter Dutton, David Littleproud led Coalition government, we will expect better from everybody and particularly so putting the interests of victims and vulnerable women and children before those of perpetrators.
Question
On policy, has your government efficiency role been hobbled by Peter Dutton’s back down on public service cuts?
Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price
Oh, no, not at all. What we’ve always said is that we want to be able to ensure that the public service is sustainable, it’s efficient, and that they’re delivering for the benefit of all Australians. But no, there’s lots of work to be done in this space. Getting rid of red and green tape to ensure there is economic prosperity and projects go ahead in this country, making sure that there aren’t ridiculous projects or grants that delivered to ridiculous projects to begin with. There’s so much in terms of what can be done in government efficiency and I’ll be working very closely with my cabinet colleagues when we do win government that they will be identifying the places where we know there has been waste from the Albanese government and looking to where we can redirect it, where we provide better outcomes and common sense toward common sense policy. That’s what we’re gonna be able to do and I’m really looking forward to being able to do that.
ENDS
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