Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs
Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Senator for Western Australia
TRANSCRIPT
ABC – RN Breakfast
18 September 2025
Topics: PNG treaty failure, net zero target, UN Gaza genocide report
E&OE
Sally Sara
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has left Papua New Guinea without securing a landmark defence treaty. Instead, the PM and his PNG counterpart James Marape have instead signed a non-binding communique, agreeing to keep advancing the treaty process. It marks the second Pacific setback for Australia this month, with a $500 million security and economic deal with Vanuatu also remaining unsigned. Michaelia Cash is the Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs and joins me now. Senator. Welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
Senator Cash
Great to be with you, and good morning to your listeners.
Sally Sara
Anthony Albanese has made it clear that the delay of the treaty was due to respecting sovereignty and the processes of the Papua New Guinea government. Are they reasonable grounds for a delay, in your view?
Senator Cash
Well, Sally, let’s be clear, this is yet another foreign policy embarrassment for the Albanese government, and you’ve said it yourself on your show. They promised the Australia-Vanuatu security agreement would be signed. That fell over at the last minute, and now we have a similar situation with our closest neighbour, PNG. I think what’s disappointing and what exposes Anthony Albanese is that for months now, and even this week, the Prime Minister and his ministers assured Australians that this landmark security treaty with PNG would be signed. But as you said, instead, Australians have nothing more than a communique. And I would say that is not a win, it is a policy failure of diplomacy.
Sally Sara
PNG’s defence minister is now due to visit China. What should Australia be doing to keep negotiations on track with PNG? In your view?
Senator Cash
Well, this is interesting, because ordinarily, once an agreement is signed, both sides, as you know, have the confidence to move forward together. The fact that this draft has now been shared more widely, I think disappointingly, shows that Mr. Albanese failed to secure that confidence before the signing. And I think this is a reminder for all Australians that good diplomacy is about quiet, careful preparation, certainly not photo ops, and certainly not the excitement with which Mr. Albanese built up the expectations that it would be signed. The Albanese government should have done more groundwork before promising the signing date. And unfortunately, you know now what we’re seeing is the consequence of announcing outcomes before the details were fully settled. But what Australia now needs to do, I mean, it’s critical that we are seen as the trusted and reliable partner, and that means we need to do even more work now so that the agreement is signed. Because I can tell you, Sally, the Coalition wants to see the treaty succeed.
Sally Sara
There was criticism from the Pacific during the Prime Ministership of Scott Morrison regarding the relationship between Australia and Pacific nations. Are you in a position to be offering advice and criticism of the Labor government, given the Morrison government’s record in the Pacific?
Senator Cash
We actually worked well with the Pacific, despite what you’ve said. I mean, Papua New Guinea is our closest neighbour and our family in the Pacific. And as I said, I want to see the treaty succeed. The Coalition wants to see the treaty succeed. But this is Mr. Albanese. He basically has been telling Australians that this agreement would be signed, and it wasn’t. So instead of delivering what Mr. Albanese has done is presided over yet another foreign policy failure. It was Mr. Albanese that built this up Sally, to be a signature moment. He now needs to stop the spin and deliver the treaty, because our security and credibility in the Pacific are so important. But as I said, I want this treaty to succeed, but the words now need to be matched with action, and it is in our national interest that PNG looks to Australia, not to others for its security.
Sally Sara
You’re listening to Radio National Breakfast, and my guest this morning is the Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Michaelia Cash. We’re expecting the government to announce its net zero climate target for 2035 today. Is it helpful for members of the Coalition to be stating their personal positions on net zero before the Coalition has resolved its own policy?
Senator Cash
Well, Sally, I would have thought that given who you are and what you do for a living, you love free speech, I fundamentally back free speech, and that’s a huge difference between the Coalition and Labor. We actually allow our members to have an opinion. That is all part of healthy debate in a democracy, and I support that. The bigger issue here is Mr. Albanese and the fact that he has signed Australia up and legislated energy and emissions reduction at any cost. I mean, Sally, you’d have to even yourself admit that there’s a trifecta of Labor failure at the moment. And that’s not me saying it. That’s the actual reality. Prices are up. Reliability is down and emissions are flatlining. Labor went to the 2022, election with three promises, a $275 cut to bills by 2025. 82% renewables by 2030, and a 43% emissions reduction. They have either failed or are failing on all three now – that’s a great disappointment for all Australians. I’ve been very, very clear.
Sally Sara
The Coalition went with a policy of nuclear power, which was soundly rejected by the Australian public. You’re yet to have a policy replacement. Are you in a position to be providing criticism when we don’t know what your position is?
Senator Cash
Let’s be very, very clear. We have said we need to reduce emissions, but not at any cost. We will always put Australian people at the centre of the energy debate, because energy, as you and I would both know, is the economy. And we have always said there are two foundational principles that will underpin our policy development in this area. The first is having a stable, reliable energy grid, which provides affordable power for households and businesses. And secondly, reducing emissions in a responsible, transparent way that ensures Australia does do its fair share. But I can tell you right now, we will focus on costs, because Labor is hiding the costs of their policies and their targets and the Australian people, ultimately, Sally, are the ones who pay the price whenever they walk into a shop and pay more whenever they open their energy bill at home – Mum and Dad. Australia are the ones paying for Labor’s policy failures.
Sally Sara
And to be clear, it’s not yet established whether Labor will legislate. Let’s move on.
Senator Cash
Oh no, Sally, you’re wrong there. No, no, no, hello. You don’t get away with saying something that is factually incorrect. In 2022 Labor legislated 2050 – we opposed it at the time, so it is already a legislated target.
Sally Sara
We don’t know if they’re going to legislate on the 2035.
Senator Cash
But hold on, 2050 itself is already legislated. They are failing under their own test. They are already causing pain to the Australian people because they legislated what is meant to be under the Paris agreement. And even you would recognise that under the Paris Agreement, net zero is an aspirational target. Mr. Albanese chose to legislate and place pain upon Australian people, Australian businesses, Australian industry. We opposed the legislation at the time, not because we said we’re not committed to net zero, but because the….
Sally Sara
But the target that’s going to be announced today – we don’t yet know… we’ve got time running against us. I need to ask you about Gaza, which is in your portfolio? A UN commission of inquiry has found that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Do you accept the findings of that report?
Senator Cash
Well, genocide Sally, as you know, and I’m a lawyer, has a very specific meaning in international law. It’s not simply about loss of life in war, however tragic, it requires a deliberate intent to destroy a people in whole or in part. Now, Israel has made it very clear that its actions are about defending its citizens from Hamas terrorism, not about destroying the Palestinian people. I would also make this point, because now you’re talking about a very serious accusation in a report, but it needs to meet a legal threshold.
Sally Sara
The report says these are legal findings.
Senator Cash
Well, guess what? This report is not a ruling of the International Court of Justice or the International Criminal Court. It is the finding of a UN body. It’s as simple as that. As I said, the loss of innocent life in Gaza is a tragedy. Every innocent death, whether Israeli or Palestinian, is one too many. However, genocide is not simply about loss of life in war. It requires a deliberate intent to destroy….. (interrupted)
Sally Sara
The report says there has been direct and public incitement to commit genocide by Israel’s leaders. What do you make of the report, singling out the president, the prime minister, and the then defence minister for their remarks?
Senator Cash
Well, Israel has consistently and strongly rejected this allegation. They argue its actions are in self-defence following the barbaric Hamas terrorist attacks as you know, of October the seventh, in fact, Prime Minister Netanyahu himself has been explicit. He has stated, our war is against Hamas terrorists, not against the people of Gaza. He has made it very clear, they are not targeting Palestinian civilians. They are targeting Hamas murderers who hide behind civilians. And why that matters Sally….. (interrupted)
Sally Sara
The president on October 13, 2023, Isaac Herzog said it’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. It is not true this rhetoric about civilians who were not aware and not involved. It is absolutely not true. They could have risen up. They could have fought against the evil regime that took over Gaza.
Senator Cash
Well, Sally, unfortunately, I’m not going to justify terrorists, so I have a very simple principle in life. Hamas are, terrorists, you don’t reward terrorists. Even Harvard’s Alan Dershowitz – and if your listeners don’t follow Alan Dershowitz, he’s one of the most prominent lawyers in the world. He is a lifelong Democrat. Have a look at what he has to say, because he will only ever look at anything from a legal perspective. And when you look at this from a legal perspective, the key question under international law is intent. It requires a deliberate intent to destroy a people in whole or in part. Now, if you want to talk about intent, Hamas’ charter and actions make clear that it is committed to the destruction of the State of Israel, that in itself, is a genocidal objective. Hamas does not seek peace or coexistence. It seeks to wipe Israel off the map, and that is why Israel is acting to defend its citizens now. In saying that, as we have always said under international law, Israel has the right to defend itself, however, that right must always be exercised in accordance with international humanitarian law with every effort made to protect innocent civilians.
Sally Sara
Michaelia Cash we will need to leave it there, thank you for your time.
Senator Cash
Always great to be with you. Thanks Sally.
Recent Comments