Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs
Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Senator for Western Australia

TRANSCRIPT

RN Breakfast with Sally Sara

12 August 2025

Topics: Palestinian recognition, starvation in Gaza, Al Jazeera journalists killed

E&OE

Sally Sara

Michaelia Cash, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs joins me now. Senator, welcome back to Breakfast.

Senator Cash

Great to be with you. Sally.

Sally Sara

Foreign Affairs Minister Penny Wong has called this the best opportunity for Australia to recognise a Palestinian state. Why do you think that it’s premature?

Senator Cash

Well, you don’t achieve peace, Sally by rewarding terrorists. And what Penny Wong confirmed last night on 7:30 with Sarah Ferguson is that basically, the recognition is going ahead, whether the preconditions are satisfied or not. So in making his announcement to recognise Palestine prior to a return of the hostages and the defeat of Hamas, Mr. Albanese has effectively delivered Hamas, which is a terrorist organisation, one of its strategic objectives of the horrific terrorism on October the seventh. The Coalition is clear, you don’t reward terrorists while they’re still holding innocent people captive. Recognition must come after the hostages are freed, Hamas is disarmed, and genuine negotiations have taken place, not before.

Sally Sara

Earlier, we spoke to Alon Liel, who’s former director general of Israel’s foreign affairs ministry. He rejected the argument that Palestinian statehood rewards terrorism, pointing to a statement by France, which co-chaired a UN Conference on the Palestinian issue. If Hamas is not in the picture, how does recognising statehood reward terrorism?

Senator Cash

Well, with all due respect, Hamas has openly welcomed other countries recognition of a Palestinian state. In fact, they’ve boasted that these moves are the fruits of October the seventh. I mean, when a listed terrorist organisation sees international recognition as a reward for mass murder and hostage taking, it proves exactly why Mr. Albanese’s decision is reckless. But Sally, I’m also very concerned with the comments of US Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. I mean, he has been involved in the ceasefire negotiations. He said the talks with Hamas fell apart on the day Macron made the unilateral decision to recognise a Palestinian state. I mean, by rushing ahead, Mr. Albanese is now putting a two-state solution completely, totally and utterly at risk.

Sally Sara

It is a conditional, a conditional call for a Palestinian state. They have conditions ahead from government. Why do you not have confidence in those?

Senator Cash

Well, let us be very, very clear. Penny Wong made it clear last night. She exposed the truth, Sarah Ferguson on 7:30 – recognition is going ahead, whether the conditions are satisfied or not. Mr. Albanese has misled the Australian people. He had always said the conditions were meant to be preconditions. Labor have made it clear these conditions do not need to be met prior to recognition. This is of great concern. If these conditions aren’t met, will Mr. Albanese now revoke recognition, or they just quietly ignore the broken promises? Sally, this is a decision that the Labor Government has chosen to make without any preconditions now being met. Choices have consequences, and they will land on Labor’s watch. If Hamas has any role in a future state that’s on Labor.

Sally Sara

Labor says it’s had commitments from the Palestinian Authority to demilitarise Gaza, to reform governance, hold elections.

Senator Cash

They are almost laughable. It is embarrassing. Their past record shows failure. The Palestinian Authority has not complied with the Oslo Accords, from making payments to convicted terrorists to promoting anti-Israel rhetoric to pursuing unity deals with Hamas and let’s not forget, they haven’t held proper elections in almost 20 years, despite the Oslo Accords requiring regular democratic elections. If Mr. Albanese Sally was serious about peace, he would have made recognition conditional on full verifiable compliance with Oslo. Instead, he’s handed over recognition with no guarantees, no enforcement and no plan to stop these breaches the Palestinian Authority has made over many, many, many years – similar promises before to reform, to end terrorism incentives, to hold elections, to educate, and they have broken them.

Sally Sara

Will you also be holding Israel to the same standards of the Oslo Accords?

Senator Cash

Oh, well, I’ve been very, very clear. Both sides need to come to the table and negotiate. That is how you get a two-state solution. But Sally, let’s be clear. Go back to where this started, October the seventh, 2023 when Hamas, a terrorist organisation dedicated to the destruction of Israel, launched a massive attack, and they butchered 1200 Israelis, and they took Israelis hostage. Now, Sally, this is the question that I have for Mr. Albanese, apart from the fact that you have now admitted – your Foreign Minister has now admitted that recognition is going ahead, whether the conditions are satisfied or not. Sally, you tell me, how does a government recognise a state that doesn’t even exist? I mean, I don’t even know what Mr. Albanese is actually recognising.

Sally Sara

Isn’t that what recognition is about?

Senator Cash

No, it’s not just hold on. Where, though Mr. Albanese has not made the release of the hostages a precondition for recognition, that is just an abject failure on behalf of Mr. Albanese. But as I said, Mr. Albanese does need to answer. You’re right. What state is he recognizing? You don’t actually recognize a new state until that state exists. He’s now committed Australia to recognizing as a state an entity with no agreed borders, no single government in effective control of its territory and no demonstrated capacity to live in peace with its neighbours. I mean, you’ve got to be honest. Sally, what does that even mean?

Sally Sara

Senator, let’s talk about Israel’s military response. Do you believe that Israel’s military response following the events of October 7 has been proportionate and justified?

Senator Cash

Well, let’s be very clear, Israel has the right to defend itself. That is a fact at international law. I have also been clear all parties, including Israel, must act within the bounds of international law. The rules apply to everyone Israel, Hamas, who couldn’t care less about the rules, Sally, ironically, or anyone else. But let’s never forget –

Sally Sara

Are you satisfied Israel has complied with international law in its military response to the attacks of October 7?

Senator Cash

That is not for you and I to sit back in Australia, where we’ve probably both gone and had a cup of coffee this morning in our offices to judge.

Sally Sara

I don’t drink coffee Senator.

Senator Cash

Well, you know what I’m saying? It’s very, very clear. We have been clear. All parties, including Israel, must act within the bounds of international law. Allegations of breaches must be investigated by credible bodies.

Sally Sara

Israel’s Ambassador to Australia Amir Maimon has told 7:30 last night that there is no policy of starvation on the part of Israel in Gaza. Do you believe that?

Senator Cash

Well, I’ve been clear the humanitarian situation in Gaza is dire. There’s no question about that. The Coalition has been clear that all parties must allow humanitarian aid in, and that includes ensuring Hamas does not steal or divert it. Australia must consistently advocate Sally for safe, reliable humanitarian access.

Sally Sara

Do you think the current system under the management of Israel and the United States is safe?

Senator Cash

I think that it is obvious that not enough aid is getting to civilians.

Sally Sara

The way it’s being conducted – many people have been shot trying to get aid, haven’t they?

Senator Cash

Well, let’s be very clear, Australia must advocate for safe, reliable humanitarian access, and this means ensuring aid is delivered even under conflict. It must reach civilians and it cannot be exploited by any party, our focus should stay firmly on protecting children and innocent civilians, not deflecting blame.

Sally Sara

Israel has confirmed that it targeted an Al Jazeera journalist, four other journalists and two other people were killed in a strike by the Israeli military. The target was Anas Al-Sharif, a prominent journalist with Al Jazeera. Do you condemn or support those killings?

Senator Cash

Well, that’s a horrific question that you would even begin to put to me. The death of any journalist in a conflict zone is serious Sally. Journalists should never be targeted for their work. Israel has said that one of the journalists killed was a Hamas operative using journalism as a cover. Israel has said it does not target journalists.

Sally Sara

But Israel did target journalists? In this case, didn’t it? This was the office of Al Jazeera which had others in it. It was attacked.

Senator Cash

Let me finish answering the question. Israel has said it did not target journalists, and any strike in Gaza is aimed at Hamas and other terrorist infrastructure. Allegations to the contrary should be subject to independent scrutiny so the facts are clear. These are serious claims. They must be tested through credible independent investigation. But as I said, my starting position, the death of any journalist in a conflict zone, is serious. Journalists should never be targeted for their work. But Israel has said, and they would have, I assume, credible evidence, which they should now produce, that one of the journalists killed was a Hamas operative using journalism as a cover.

Sally Sara

Senator Michaelia Cash, thank you very much for your time.

Senator Cash

Fabulous to be with you this morning. Sally, thank you.